Dope? Tissue?

[Brenda]

So I've noticed MANY pages on how to cover with white glue, glue sticks, ext ext. I went down to the store and got several bottles of AeroGloss all in clear. Seems they do not make it in colors any longer. I did find a place here in LA to get normal aircraft dope in gallon sizes and in COLORS! Oh how nice it is to see Cub Yellow again. Anyhow I digress, why do so many people not want to use dope? I've never had a problem with it ever, but then again I use to do it in a well ventilated area. And even today I used a large shop fan to make sure. It is easy to work with, easy to judge how tight it is getting. Comes in a lot of colors. Cheap!

Now on to my tissue problems. I bought several Guillows kits and they don't have the same paper as the old ones. It's not even like the Comet kits. Is there any place to get hand laid paper anymore? Or something like it? How about paper that isn't painted white (yes found that out the hard way)? I can't even find silk span. Has anyone tired to use tissue used in gift wrapping?

Thanks everyone in advance!

[stx44]

The biggest issue for dope is the smell- I currently have a small workshop, so would gas myself out if I used it! In the last house my choice was the dining room table, or later a small set up in the garage attached to the house- either way, the use of dope caused significant complaint from the other inhabitants!

Have you tried the Guillows aftermarket tissue? The kit stuff is pretty mediocre, but the stuff that comes in a small pack is pretty good. Sure, you still have a choice of white, white or white, but it handles much better.

[stx44]

Oh- and I did try gift wrap. Once. Never again. It does not perform like proper aircraft tissue!

[Mitch]

Brenda,

I still have Dope, but lately do not use it anymore. I get mine in pint cans from SIG. If you use it I cut it with thinner.

I now use a spray from TopFlite it is called LusterKote and comes in a 10 oz can. It cost 7.99 and I used it on my last 3 models and I like it. 2 light coats and 1 heavier finish coat. That is how I finished my Zero.

As for attaching paper I used to use a glue stick, but as my models are getting lighter and more fragile, I now use watered down white glue and apply with a brush.

As for paper, I get mine from easybuiltmodels.com. Domestic tissue comes in 28 colors, Silver and Gold. All my builds in the past 2 years have used domestic colored tissue covered in clear dope. They also sell Esaki, much more expensive, fewer colors and small sheets.

Mitch

[Brenda]

As for paper, I get mine from easybuiltmodels.com. Domestic tissue comes in 28 colors, Silver and Gold. All my builds in the past 2 years have used domestic colored tissue covered in clear dope. They also sell Esaki, much more expensive, fewer colors and small sheets.

Mitch

You know 3 min after I posted that I saw the bird dog post and the link. Sorry I was frustrated as I had been looking all over the web using Google for more than a month trying to find it. I don't mind paying a little extra but the 28 colors sounds very good! I'm going to buy a bundle of every color just so I can see for myself. Thanks again Mitch!

[Billy Mc]

Has anyone tired to use tissue used in gift wrapping?

I did this one with plain gift wrapping tissue with three coats of clear lacquer.
http://balsamodels.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2792

[David Lewis]

There's big difference between Esaki Japanese tissue and domestic tissue in terms of weight, ease of handling, appearance and price. Also, gift wrap tissue comes in all sorts of grades and weights so it depends on which kind you buy.

[bluecolt]

I had been using glue stick and Kyrlon for awhile due to it being convenient to buy local and easy on the nose, but I recently bought a quart of aircraft dope because I wanted to revisit the 'old school' way of covering. I had almost forgotten how easy it was to use and to get nice taught tissue with nitrate dope, it dries really fast, sands beautifully and gives the tissue a nice sheen. To help with the smell I bought some small screw-top jars that I transfer a small amount too and can re-lid between dipping the brush. I also work in the garage with fans and the door open and haven't received any complaints from the wife about fumes. It worked so well that I've decided to switch back to the dope method full time. I hear some people mention that their climate limits working outside so they've switched from dope so they can cover inside, but living in Texas I can work in the garage nearly year-round. Dope & wetted tissue dry crazy fast when it's 106F outside!

I ordered a bunch of tissue from another online kit manufacturer (is it ok to mention other competing model companies by name?) that I've had good luck with. I have had some luck with store bought gift tissue, but it's hit or miss, even among the same brand. For example, I bought some different colors of gift tissue at Target and some colors worked well, especially one particular package of orange that is crinkly and had a shiny side that covers quite nice, but the green tissue from the same package was junk and fell apart just from being handled on a humid day. You'd just have to buy different examples and experiment.

[Brenda]

Good for you. I like the old look of tissue and dope. Even better when you can see through it. As all mine are nitro burners I can not use nitrate dope. I just got 1/2 gallon of Sig and use baby food jars. If I really need it I have forced air mask I can use. Lots of O2 there. I'll post up some pics later of how the Sig dope looks with Jap tissue.

[tail spin]

My question, Is there a weight difference from using white glue/ water dilution method ( Mat medium) Or the use of Dope to attach tissue to the balsa airframe, As well as the sealing of the balsa air frame? I noticed the Older kits from Guillows the instructions call for sealing the balsa airframe with nitrate dope then covering following with misting with water then a 50/50 mixture of dope/thinner on the tissue for the final seal. Being a "newbie" to this hobby. I have only used the tissue supplied in the kits & used the "old school" method 100% tried & true but willing to use another proven method . The dope, I use my spray booth for adequate ventilation. LOL I did it without ventilation once... I took the preverbal trip & didn't have to leave the farm scenario. I would like to try the colored tissues to keep from the weight of painting besides I prefer the "vintage" appearance of being some what transparent. Now I am intrigued by the weight & quality between tissues. Open for any suggestions.

[David Lewis]

The lightest covering is almost certainly going to be mylar. 2 um thick mylar weighs 2.2 g/m^2 (versus 12 g/m^2 for undoped Jap tissue).

[zoomie]

One or two mist coats of Krylon spray clear (gloss or matte) is lighter than dope.

Some modellers have used clear acrylic floor finish like Pledge or Future as a dope substitute with good results. I think WIDDOG finished a FW-190 with it that looked very nice, maybe he'll chime in later.

Cheap colored tissue for crafts and gift wrap can be used, good idea to first test it to see if it bleeds with water. I've used the "bleeding" tissue for NoCals (profile models) by gluesticking smaller tissue sections of it to a frame and steaming it to preshrink. It also fades in sunlight sooner than does quality domestic and Esaki tissue.

+1 what Mitch said about Easy Built domestic tissue. It's probably the best domestic tissue available as of now.

For buying both nitrate and butyrate dope and thinners in large quantities at discount prices, Google the Aircraft Spruce company.

For dope or white glue tissue prep, framework needs a prime coat with dope or thinned white glue as first coat soaks into the grain and raises the balsa fibers which in turn need to be sanded when dry. A nice damp glue stick doesn't require a prime coat of anything, just rub it on and stick your tissue.

Not sure if Silkspan is still being made.

My first Guillows model was the 500 series Messerschmitt 109, powered by kit rubber. Tissued with Aerogloss clear butyrate hot fuel proof dope. LHS did not carry nitrate dope as there was no demand for it locally at that time (mid-1960s), plus manufacturers were dropping it from their product line. Still remember the stench and complaints . The thinned white glue method would have been better but I don't think it was in common use or even known then.

I'm into quick and easy. So much handier to gluestick the frame, apply tissue, mist a fine water spray over the model surfaces, then a coupla light coats of clear Krylon over everything. Done!

Sure beats dope, thinners, mixing, fans, respirators, headaches etc. But that's just me. Whatever works for you is what works best .


zoomie

[cliffm]

Brodak manufacturing out of carmicheal pennsylvania has light and medium silkspan available. Medium should be about as heavy a covering as anyone should need for our type of covering, I like it because it goes on so easily when wet and with a little patience it can be worked into curves and bends without the frailty of most other tissue. I use elmers and water on all of my builds and find that the silkspan will still shrink with up to 5-6 coats.