Another Guillows Wood Question

[scigs30]

Here I go again about the Guillows Wood. I just finished the piper cub build and I am starting on the Guillows SE-5. I have the older version and the new Lazy Cut version. I will be cutting my own wood for this build just because I like to. The quality of the wood in the new version is awesome and compares to Dumas. Now my question: I also bought the Guillows Flying Fortress kit. I was going to wait for this to come out in lazy cut but that may not happen. Well when I got the kit I must say the die cut wood is just as sharp as lazy cut. I was pleased and excited not to see die crunched parts. So why is it that the smaller kits all come with die crunched parts? Is it that Guillows updates the Cutter for the more expensive kits? Any way I am just curious, but once again great job on the new SE-5 wood and Fortress wood. If all the wood came in great shape like the Flying Fortress, I don't think there would be a need for Lazy cut.

[SteveM]

I think it is a combination of the age of the die, when it was last sharpened, and the hardness of the wood.

The 2000 series kits are a higher price item which may dictate keeping the dies in better shape as compared to a 500 series. Soft wood tends to crush while hard wood tends to cut cleanly. It's a catch 22 for flying planes because the lighter wood is softer which means it was more likely to be crushed. Even if the wood is cut clean it sometimes doesn't match the outline on the plans, so when cutting your own wood I think it is best to use the plans as a guide rather than the die cut wood pieces.

I also would like to see more laser cut kits and hope Guillow's continues to convert more of their kits to laser cut as the dies wear out. One way to give them this message of support is to purchase the laser cut kits.

[scigs30]

I own all the laser Cut WWII birds, heck I think I now own most of the Guillows kits including some of the older ones.

[thymekiller]

Hadnt thught about the hard wood being better for production. That would explain alot.
I have to think that There is a bigger profit margin on the higher end kits. Also not as many made so that would help keep the blades sharp.

I cannot understand why the lazer cut kits cost more.
I know the machine is expensive, but it a one time expense. I have not run one and lack knowledge in them, but I know a cnc machine , after being programmed , will copy that piece a million times without omplaint.
With a lazer cutter, I dont think there is alot of bits or blades to maintain, or anything like that. Am I wrong in thinking that a lazer machine is a "set it and forget it" type of machine? Are they not as maintaince free as I am thinking?

For a very brief time I worked at a place that used dyes to cut [ stamp] cardboard. The machine was very old, very heavy, very precise. Running it was an art. Even if you set it perfect, it would need re-set from time to time. If you set it wrong, It would destroy the die or fail to cut and you made many pieces before you knew it. Repairs were very expensive because there was only one company in Arkansas that would touch it.
I understand the need for a better machine for the job. Is the lazer cutter not quite the miracle that I thought it was?

thymekiller

[dbcisco]

The laser cutter is a CNC table mill with a laser inplace of the motorized bit.

Same post investment cost as any CNC. The problem with laser cut balsa is that it is much slower than a die press. Also, unlike CNC which often makes master parts from which castings are made, you can't do that with wood.

However, you could use a traditional CNC mill to make a thousand perfect dies very cheaply and have perfect die cut balsa parts forever. It would have cost much less and possibly been close to laser cut quality. But, the words "laser cut" sells kits. even if you could die cut wood better than laser it wouldn't sell as many kits. Although, I have seen very high priced kits that only come with printed sheet wood!

One thing I have learned from business is this, the best product is not always the most marketable or profitable and people will spend alot more for an identical item if it has status attatched to it (IE: I-pod, Blackberry, Align T-rex, Cadillac, Prada, etc.) or even if that status product is not as good as a competitor.

[kittyfritters]

Laser cutting is not the last word. Many of the higher end R/C kits, especially those that have thin section structures, such as ducted fan jets, have formers and other parts of CNC mill cut balsa, basswood and birch plywood.

[Thewonderfrog]

The laser cut kits are excellent, they really went out of their way to make sure good balsa was used. I have built dumas kits and I hate the way you still have to cut the parts out as they are not cut all the way. The guillow kits you can just basically blow hard on the part and it will come out. So thats also nice.

The laser cut parts don't match up perfectly to the plans, but 4 year old tech vs.40 year old designs I guess something got lost in the translation. The kits go together nearly effortlessly and I can do a whole skeleton in a day and its pretty easy to tell what parts werent cut exact to the plans.

Some of the die crushed stuff is terrible and I have taken 1 model back to the store it was unbuildable. Guillow may need some more QC at the production line. I sure would like to see the other kits besides the 200 series and the wright plane go to laser cutting. I also understand that is quite expensive to do since it may take the laser 10 minutes to cut out 1 planes worth of parts vs. the crushers 500. Economies of scale, gotta make a profit if your a corporation. To keep the production at the same capacity may cost much more than they are willing to pay at this economically challenged period. It might take 10 lasers to replace 1 die cutter.

[kittyfritters]

I prefer accurately printed wood, that I have to cut myself, to mediocre die cutting. If you want to see what accurate printing is, buy a West Wings kit. Cut slightly outside, then carefully sanded to the outlines the parts go together like one of the better laser cut kits.

Of course, laser or CNC cutting on really good wood saves so much time. On the other hand, you should learn the proper technique with a knife anyway. Someday you will want to model an airplane that no one has kitted and you will have to scratch build. Unless you happen to own a laser cutter it will be print and cut.

Guillow has been threatening to bring the 400 series out laser cut for a several years. I wonder if that has been delayed by their distributors who want to get the existing 400 series kits out of the pipeline before the laser cut kits are released? It will be nice when it happens.

[thymekiller]

Printwood dosent bother me at all. Its got to be the cheapest way to make parts sheets. For that matter, the parts sheet could be printed on paper. If you get your plans on-line, thats how its done anyway.

It wont happen that way because most guys dont like to cut thier own wood. I own a scroll saw and really enjoy running it.





Its the wood working that I love the most.

thymekiller

[scigs30]

I would also prefer quality printed balsa than die crushed.