Guillows sheetwood flying models - the Zip nocals.
Re: Guillows sheetwood flying models - the Zip nocals.
by Hannair » Mon Mar 25, 2013 11:38 am
Hello simpleflyer - in post #4 you indicated that you would provide more detail relative to 'swing flight under a seperate topic. I have'nt been able to locate that detailed description. Can you provide further detail? How would one set up such a system? Is the line attached at or ahead of the c of g? How long is the line? What is the technigue required to "launch" the model for flight? etc. I would be interested in this detail. Thank you. KCH hannair.
- Hannair
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2012 8:29 am
Re: Guillows sheetwood flying models - the Zip nocals.
by simpleflyer » Tue Mar 26, 2013 6:33 pm
Thank you, Hannair, for your interest in the swing control models.
In our version of swing control we are doing what is very similar to the illustration. In the illustration, it appears the flyer turns with the model as in U-control.
Since we get dizzy easily when turning in a circle, we remain standing in place and swing the line and model around us in a circle. To do this, we use a 12 foot long fish pole attached to the line which is then attached to the model. Initially, we started out with a four foot pole. For attachment we use common fishing swivel connectors between the pole and the line and between the line and the model. In calm weather we use a line approaching twenty feet in length. For windy weather, we use a line about the length of the pole that we are flying with. This is a safety precaution. If we fly into unstable air and the model goes out of control, all that one has to do is to raise the pole straight up over one's head and the model is prevented from contacting the ground. To add interest and challenge to the flying, sometimes I use the long line but have to be in the frame of mind to accept a crash and the resultant damage of the model.
In the illustration above it is suggested to attach the line at the tip of the wing in line with the CG. With a good flying stable model this works well. If the air is breezy/unstable or the model is not very stable, it seems to fly better if the line is attached rearward of the CG.
To launch the model using a short line, raise the tip of the pole until the model clears the ground and start swinging.
With a long line, I point the pole away from my body opposite my other arm. If there is a lot of slack line, it is loosely held in the hand with the pole. With the free hand, I grasp about three foot of line and give the model a swing or two to get it going out to the perimeter of the flight circle. As the plane goes on its way we release the slack line in the 'pole' hand until the line tautens and then start swinging. It appears a bit tricky at first, but with practice it is quite easy.
The key element in swing control flying is the model. A stable model that has a good straight and level glide works well for us. We've had good results with the Guillows sheetwood models shown in this thread.
Also, the Guillows beginner series models fly well. Click here:
http://balsamodels.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2251
Gu 'Build-by-Numbers' models models also fly well at:
http://balsamodels.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2315
If there is any thing else that you would like to know about these models, please ask.
Al
In our version of swing control we are doing what is very similar to the illustration. In the illustration, it appears the flyer turns with the model as in U-control.
Since we get dizzy easily when turning in a circle, we remain standing in place and swing the line and model around us in a circle. To do this, we use a 12 foot long fish pole attached to the line which is then attached to the model. Initially, we started out with a four foot pole. For attachment we use common fishing swivel connectors between the pole and the line and between the line and the model. In calm weather we use a line approaching twenty feet in length. For windy weather, we use a line about the length of the pole that we are flying with. This is a safety precaution. If we fly into unstable air and the model goes out of control, all that one has to do is to raise the pole straight up over one's head and the model is prevented from contacting the ground. To add interest and challenge to the flying, sometimes I use the long line but have to be in the frame of mind to accept a crash and the resultant damage of the model.
In the illustration above it is suggested to attach the line at the tip of the wing in line with the CG. With a good flying stable model this works well. If the air is breezy/unstable or the model is not very stable, it seems to fly better if the line is attached rearward of the CG.
To launch the model using a short line, raise the tip of the pole until the model clears the ground and start swinging.
With a long line, I point the pole away from my body opposite my other arm. If there is a lot of slack line, it is loosely held in the hand with the pole. With the free hand, I grasp about three foot of line and give the model a swing or two to get it going out to the perimeter of the flight circle. As the plane goes on its way we release the slack line in the 'pole' hand until the line tautens and then start swinging. It appears a bit tricky at first, but with practice it is quite easy.
The key element in swing control flying is the model. A stable model that has a good straight and level glide works well for us. We've had good results with the Guillows sheetwood models shown in this thread.
Also, the Guillows beginner series models fly well. Click here:
http://balsamodels.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2251
Gu 'Build-by-Numbers' models models also fly well at:
http://balsamodels.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2315
If there is any thing else that you would like to know about these models, please ask.
Al
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Last edited by simpleflyer on Tue Apr 09, 2013 2:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- simpleflyer
- Posts: 476
- Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:51 pm
- Location: Rosenberg, Texas
Re: Guillows sheetwood flying models - the Zip nocals.
by simpleflyer » Wed Mar 27, 2013 7:55 pm
Hello Hannair, here is another method of launching a whip controlled model as shown in this illustration.
In this method two swing lines are attached to a bell crank in the model an to a U-control handle in the flyers hand. A whip pole is used to provide the power to keep the model in the air. The lines are are free to move thru fittings bent of wire attached to the pole. In this method of flying the flyer has to move in a circle and follow the path of the model using one hand to control the up and down path of the model and the other hand to swing the whip pole to keep the model in the air. I have not flown models using this system. In this system it appears that in the swing hand is the pole with enough line to get the model flying. In the other hand are the control handle together with the extra flying line. As the model starts to fly the extra line is played out until the lines are tight enough to allow control with the handle. I've read that some modelers have flown quite successfully using this method.
In this method two swing lines are attached to a bell crank in the model an to a U-control handle in the flyers hand. A whip pole is used to provide the power to keep the model in the air. The lines are are free to move thru fittings bent of wire attached to the pole. In this method of flying the flyer has to move in a circle and follow the path of the model using one hand to control the up and down path of the model and the other hand to swing the whip pole to keep the model in the air. I have not flown models using this system. In this system it appears that in the swing hand is the pole with enough line to get the model flying. In the other hand are the control handle together with the extra flying line. As the model starts to fly the extra line is played out until the lines are tight enough to allow control with the handle. I've read that some modelers have flown quite successfully using this method.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
- simpleflyer
- Posts: 476
- Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:51 pm
- Location: Rosenberg, Texas
Re: Guillows sheetwood flying models - the Zip nocals.
by Hannair » Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:48 pm
Hello simpleflyer!
Thank you for this information. Together with that included in your previous posts, this will assist in "trying" this method of flying small "fliers" in our back yard.
Have a great day & many happy, succesful flights,
Ken H.
Thank you for this information. Together with that included in your previous posts, this will assist in "trying" this method of flying small "fliers" in our back yard.
Have a great day & many happy, succesful flights,
Ken H.
- Hannair
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2012 8:29 am
Re: Guillows sheetwood flying models - the Zip nocals.
by simpleflyer » Sat Apr 06, 2013 12:18 am
Ken, I'm g;ad that this information was useful to you. It may be a bit 'dated' but it works as well today as it did way back then. Do you have any existing models that you plan to fly by swing control? I will be interested in seeing how they work out for you. If you have any more questions, I'll be glad to try to help you if I can. For several years now, I've been having a lot of fun flying these models in our back yard.
Al
Al
- simpleflyer
- Posts: 476
- Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:51 pm
- Location: Rosenberg, Texas
Re: Guillows sheetwood flying models - the Zip nocals.
by simpleflyer » Thu May 09, 2013 3:35 pm
In the article above Jim Walker published plans for a swing control model patterned after the Republic F-84.
We're going to try to make a simpler version and use some old Guillow's models for ideas in producing this model. Around the 1950's G made two ZIP versions of the F-84. A glider version.
And a rubber powered version.
We're going to try to make a simpler version and use some old Guillow's models for ideas in producing this model. Around the 1950's G made two ZIP versions of the F-84. A glider version.
And a rubber powered version.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
- simpleflyer
- Posts: 476
- Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:51 pm
- Location: Rosenberg, Texas
Re: Guillows sheetwood flying models - the Zip nocals.
by simpleflyer » Thu May 09, 2013 3:44 pm
An interesting bit of trivia about the glider version of the F-84, they were about 8 inches wingspan and came two in a box for ten cents. Back then the F-84 was designated as the P-84.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
- simpleflyer
- Posts: 476
- Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:51 pm
- Location: Rosenberg, Texas
Re: Guillows sheetwood flying models - the Zip nocals.
by simpleflyer » Fri May 10, 2013 12:01 am
First we take the P-84 three view drawing from the Jim Walker article and rearrange it into this image.
This image was printed to half sheet of card stock 5 1/2 x 8 1/2 in. It was then cut up to make these cutting patterns.
The patterns were used to cut out these balsa parts of our scratch-built kit for the P-84.
The wing-span is 8 inches. It may seem to be a bit small, but it is a good size for building a quick model to test out a new design. Click on http://balsamodels.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1646 to see some of our earlier 8 inch swingers and how they fly.
This image was printed to half sheet of card stock 5 1/2 x 8 1/2 in. It was then cut up to make these cutting patterns.
The patterns were used to cut out these balsa parts of our scratch-built kit for the P-84.
The wing-span is 8 inches. It may seem to be a bit small, but it is a good size for building a quick model to test out a new design. Click on http://balsamodels.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1646 to see some of our earlier 8 inch swingers and how they fly.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Last edited by simpleflyer on Fri Jun 21, 2013 1:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.
- simpleflyer
- Posts: 476
- Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:51 pm
- Location: Rosenberg, Texas
Re: Guillows sheetwood flying models - the Zip nocals.
by simpleflyer » Sat May 18, 2013 4:23 pm
This past week, Norma , rewarded me with short vacation trip to Washington, DC. My goal was to visit both of the Air & Space museums - the mall and Udvar-Hazy.
Our first stop was NASM at the mall. At the top of the list of things to see were LuluBelle and the Ferris B-17 mural. After building a swing control model of Lulu-Belle a couple pages back, I was eager to see the 'gal' in person. Here she is with a Keith Ferris painting of an early P-80 on the wall to the right.
Norma kindly took a picture of the old 'simple-flyer' and our ancient friend.(I was one month shy of my 4th birthday, when LuluBelle flew for the first time, piloted by Milo Burcham.)
Our first stop was NASM at the mall. At the top of the list of things to see were LuluBelle and the Ferris B-17 mural. After building a swing control model of Lulu-Belle a couple pages back, I was eager to see the 'gal' in person. Here she is with a Keith Ferris painting of an early P-80 on the wall to the right.
Norma kindly took a picture of the old 'simple-flyer' and our ancient friend.(I was one month shy of my 4th birthday, when LuluBelle flew for the first time, piloted by Milo Burcham.)
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
- simpleflyer
- Posts: 476
- Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:51 pm
- Location: Rosenberg, Texas
Re: Guillows sheetwood flying models - the Zip nocals.
by simpleflyer » Sat May 18, 2013 4:29 pm
Sharing the exhibit room were a ME-262 and an awesome Ferris mural illustrating the development of jet aircraft. This was a very pleasant surprise, as I was not aware that this mural was part of this exhibit. The artwork is too large to capture in one frame of our camera.
The second part of the mural. To get a idea of its size, note the visitors viewing a turbine engine below the mural to the right. I would estimate that this artwork approaches the size of Mr. Ferris's B-17 mural which is 25 feet tall and 75 feet wide. The art work depicts 27 aircraft tracing the development of jet aviation from the He 178 to the SR-71.
Stay tuned: next time, the B-17 mural
The second part of the mural. To get a idea of its size, note the visitors viewing a turbine engine below the mural to the right. I would estimate that this artwork approaches the size of Mr. Ferris's B-17 mural which is 25 feet tall and 75 feet wide. The art work depicts 27 aircraft tracing the development of jet aviation from the He 178 to the SR-71.
Stay tuned: next time, the B-17 mural
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
- simpleflyer
- Posts: 476
- Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:51 pm
- Location: Rosenberg, Texas
Re: Guillows sheetwood flying models - the Zip nocals.
by simpleflyer » Mon May 20, 2013 5:15 pm
A few more comments about LuluBelle and the Ferris mural of the jet aircraft. A good picture of LuluBelle may be found at the NASM site at:
http://airandspace.si.edu/imagedetail.cfm?imageID=1066
An image at NASM showing a complete view of the Ferris jet aircraft mural is at:
http://airandspace.si.edu/imagedetail.cfm?imageID=1415
The mural is 20 feet tall and 75 feet wide.
http://airandspace.si.edu/imagedetail.cfm?imageID=1066
An image at NASM showing a complete view of the Ferris jet aircraft mural is at:
http://airandspace.si.edu/imagedetail.cfm?imageID=1415
The mural is 20 feet tall and 75 feet wide.
- simpleflyer
- Posts: 476
- Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:51 pm
- Location: Rosenberg, Texas
Re: Guillows sheetwood flying models - the Zip nocals.
by simpleflyer » Fri May 24, 2013 6:09 pm
After visiting LuluBelle, we went to see the Ferris mural "Fortresses Under Fire". We had seen this mural on a previous visit, but did not have an opportunity to take a snapshot of it, and since then we've learned a bit more to fully appreciate the scope of this piece of artwork.
Our snapshot does not do justice to the detail that Mr Ferris employs in the execution of this piece of artwork. To get some idea of the detail it is suggested to check this webpage and view the large version of the image there:
http://airandspace.si.edu/imagedetail.cfm?imageID=1173
To see a small image of the complete mural, check the Feriss website at:
http://www.keithferrisart.com/search_result_image.asp_Q_Product_ID_E_007FortressesUnderFire
The small image can't express the detail of the original, but it shows the overall view. The mural is 25 feet tall and 75 feet wide. At the Ferris website, there is a lot of information about the artist and his work. Keith Ferris is my favorite aviation artist. I have been a fan of his work for over 30 years and have been fortunate to collect a modest collection of reprints of his art.
The Keith Ferris homepage is at:
http://www.keithferrisart.com/Default.asp
The 'studio' link is especially informative in that it shows the effort and resources that he invests into his artwork.
Our snapshot does not do justice to the detail that Mr Ferris employs in the execution of this piece of artwork. To get some idea of the detail it is suggested to check this webpage and view the large version of the image there:
http://airandspace.si.edu/imagedetail.cfm?imageID=1173
To see a small image of the complete mural, check the Feriss website at:
http://www.keithferrisart.com/search_result_image.asp_Q_Product_ID_E_007FortressesUnderFire
The small image can't express the detail of the original, but it shows the overall view. The mural is 25 feet tall and 75 feet wide. At the Ferris website, there is a lot of information about the artist and his work. Keith Ferris is my favorite aviation artist. I have been a fan of his work for over 30 years and have been fortunate to collect a modest collection of reprints of his art.
The Keith Ferris homepage is at:
http://www.keithferrisart.com/Default.asp
The 'studio' link is especially informative in that it shows the effort and resources that he invests into his artwork.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
- simpleflyer
- Posts: 476
- Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:51 pm
- Location: Rosenberg, Texas
Re: Guillows sheetwood flying models - the Zip nocals.
by simpleflyer » Sat Jun 01, 2013 12:13 am
Finally, we are able to return to the P-84. A bit of sanding to round off the edges and a few markings.
Some cutting and gluing of parts.
Ready for a dry fit of the parts. When the doublers are attached to the forward fuselage a pocket is formed into which the rear fuselage slides into.
Some cutting and gluing of parts.
Ready for a dry fit of the parts. When the doublers are attached to the forward fuselage a pocket is formed into which the rear fuselage slides into.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
- simpleflyer
- Posts: 476
- Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:51 pm
- Location: Rosenberg, Texas
Re: Guillows sheetwood flying models - the Zip nocals.
by simpleflyer » Sat Jun 01, 2013 12:20 am
Dry fit of the parts is OK.
Next, to glue the doublers to the nose and add some nose weight and the P-84 will be ready for a test flight.
Next, to glue the doublers to the nose and add some nose weight and the P-84 will be ready for a test flight.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
- simpleflyer
- Posts: 476
- Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:51 pm
- Location: Rosenberg, Texas
Re: Guillows sheetwood flying models - the Zip nocals.
by simpleflyer » Sat Jun 01, 2013 11:39 pm
P-84 nose glued up, weight added to nose for balance, and a loop of thread added to wing for attachment to swing line.
A couple test flight pix. The P-84 does OK for an 8 inch wingspan in breezy air.
A couple test flight pix. The P-84 does OK for an 8 inch wingspan in breezy air.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
- simpleflyer
- Posts: 476
- Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:51 pm
- Location: Rosenberg, Texas
Return to General Building Questions
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 18 guests