Construction questions

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Construction questions

Postby Balsa Pilot » Sun Mar 20, 2016 4:30 pm

Greetings to all,
Just finished covering my latest creation, (Aichi type 99 Val-30"w/s), and I guess its the larger size but when the tissue dried there are a couple of significant warps- particularly the horizontal stabilizer.
I've heard tell of using steam ( carefully) and twisting the opposite way to take out the warp, but my question is, should the steaming be done before the tissue is sealed and/or doped, or should it be steamed after, or does it make a difference? OR, is there an alternative method that is better? :mrgreen:
Any help would be appreciated

Thanks Henry
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Re: Construction questions

Postby Mitch » Sun Mar 20, 2016 6:12 pm

I like to answer questions the the best I can...even though that OTHER company does not have a forum. I do not know everything but I give you my best answer.

Definitely try to get things as straight as possible before you dope the parts. I would just spray water again and clamp the tail down so it dries straight. Did you do that the first time? For the tail I would block it up with some scrap balsa, and place pin clamps or small weights on the edge of the tail to keep it flat as it dries. If after this it does not want to be straight, then I would do the steam method. I do not have a tea pot, but just boil water in an open pot and pass the tail over the steam. the tail will get soft again and you can bend it the way you want.

What do you plan to dope the plane with? Whatever you use, the parts will be a lot stiffer and more difficult to straighten. small adjustments may be possible but if things are too bad you might end up splitting the paper. In that case I would remove the split paper and re-paper that section.

Are you using paper from the kit? Do you plan to paint the model?

Looks like I asked more questions than gave answers... Mitch
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Re: Construction questions

Postby davidchoate » Sun Mar 20, 2016 11:37 pm

Like Mitch said depending on how bad and where you are at with the finish; You may have to recover it. If it is not rubber power that companies planes need to be reinforced a bit. I have been using microlite because I never really did until recently, and it is so easy to get out warps and get perfect washout with that stuff. I have had to wet and clamp (as Mitch described) tissued parts for weeks before to get them right.
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Re: Construction questions

Postby Bill Gaylord » Mon Mar 21, 2016 11:44 am

Doesn't help much after the fact, but I've gotten really tired of minor tail surface warps and have been reducing them lately. Although I use iron-on, the susceptibility is still pretty much the same. I'm convinced that a number of them came from tissue pulled in even the slightest angled direction, versus perfectly span wise or chord wise across the part. I'm also trying to apply both panels using exactly the same scheme now, like a mirror image, which seems to help. Start at the same place on either side of the panel, and work across the panels, tacking the covering in the same order/same areas. I also now do not fully shrink the first covered side or apply it as tightly, until applying the second, and then shrink both gradually. I realize tissue is a bit different, but the natural tendency is that the last side covered tends to be applied more tightly than the first side which encourages warps, if the covering is stretched at all while sticking it down. I imagine folks using tissue covering use the same techniques, as there's even fewer shrinking options with tissue than iron-on. With tail surfaces, who knows why some decide to warp at times, but with wing panels the procedure has really made a difference. Worst case scenario I've cut through the covering only in a spot where there is framing underneath, to reduce a warp. You can usually find a spot in the framing where the warp starts, and straighten that area. Flex the area with the relief cut just made to straighten the part, and then hit the area with a drop of thin CA. Unlike Louie's apartment on Taxi, after Jim stayed there, It's barely noticeable.

davidchoate wrote:Like Mitch said depending on how bad and where you are at with the finish; You may have to recover it. If it is not rubber power that companies planes need to be reinforced a bit. I have been using microlite because I never really did until recently, and it is so easy to get out warps and get perfect washout with that stuff. I have had to wet and clamp (as Mitch described) tissued parts for weeks before to get them right.
You'll find over time that you have to overkill the warps in the opposite direction with Microlite, as they'll come back on you, especially if it's in a hot area or direct sunlight, but eventually they stabilize and get better after a few reshrinks. I've had a few models where I'll simply tweak the covering a bit, right before taking them out to fly.
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Re: Construction questions

Postby Balsa Pilot » Tue Mar 22, 2016 4:38 pm

Mitch and Bill: Thanks for taking the time to reply.
I thought I Had it straight when the glue dried, at least that's how it came off the board, yet after covering it looks like a helix with about 1/4 inch distortion from true on either end. Funny how the laminated trailing and leading edges on the wing didn't move a micron.
. Mitch its entirely possible I'll have to recover it but I will try the steam method first. It is to be "doped" with Krylon acrylic fixative, and the tissue was applied(dry) with diluted white glue and glue through the tissue once applied. Did you read Bill Gaylord's words? He may be on to something, but does tissue covering have a grain and if so then how do you tell what is is???? Either way Ill be looking into that as well.
I did use the kit tissue as it was quite light, so delicate in fact it did most emphatically not lend itself to wet covering. I wasted half a sheet trying to get it right. In response to your questions : Yes, I plan to paint the aircraft, at least the black nose, only,(airbrush), and leave the rest to save weight. Normally I won't paint a model until it's crashed and isn't airworthy, so the weight is out of the equation.
That brings up another question: what is a good method to paint the canopy frames? Brushing them in looks juvenile, there has to be a better way.

Thanks again for the help guys.
HENRY
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Re: Construction questions

Postby Mitch » Tue Mar 22, 2016 7:26 pm

Hey...I just thought

You said "grain" and that made me think. You MUST put the grain of the paper on the right way or else you are in big trouble. The instructions should tell you. For the rudder you want the grain up and down, for the horizontal stabilizer you what it the long way. If you put sheets on different sides with the grain going 90 degrees to each other you are in BIG trouble.

For newbies here... to find the grain rip the paper, like newspaper, one way it rips straight, that is the grain of the paper. Try ripping it the other way and it will not rip in a straight line.

I have done canopy frames in different ways.
1. Hand Brush
2. Cut out strips of the colored paper you used and apply to the frame.
3. Mask and cut out, then spray
Whatever works for your model. The last model I made I painted with rattle cans and it did not add too much weight. I think it was 2 grams. Friends of mine at FAC say Airbrushing is over rated. But of course for nice camo an airbrush is a must. I am planning my next build to use kit paper and rattle can, after doping with TopFlite "Luster Seal"
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Re: Construction questions

Postby Balsa Pilot » Thu Mar 24, 2016 8:38 am

Ahhh HA! thanks Mitch! I stated before that I had wasted a lot of paper trying to "wet cover" the wings with this really delicate tissue, so had to be very conservative of the remainder, and after you mentioned it now recall using the pattern for the top and bottom of the horizontal stabilizer at right angles to each other, (to save paper) when being cut out from the remaining sheet. So that seems at first glance to be the cause of the warps. I'll try to steam it out but as you suggest it may be a re-covering, although with silkspan, and applied with the grain going spanwise, instead of the kit supplied gray. Thanks for the advice on finding the grain of the paper, you only find out if you ask, and I really wish I'd known this one a long time ago!
Thanks also for the advice on canopy framing re: paint. You said about cutting strips of paper and gluing to the canopy which sounds like a method I could live with, but, what adhesive do YOU use?

Above all, thanks very much (too all) for taking the time to reply- BTW there is a snow/freezing rain storm here today. COME ON SPRING!!!!

Best regards to everyone-what a journey!
Henry
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