Testing Elmer's

[H65 Driver]

Thank you David, and "requiring" is correct.

[SteveM]

Now we just need to have someone build a similar construct using the other glues in question then see how the glue properties compare. Of course following the directions as David did can be very critical too, I found that out with Ambroid as I did a lot of off-the-model destructive testing first.

One of the worst joints is when you're building a stick frame and you have a butt joint with one end of a stick against the side of another forming a "T" shape. The glue area is tiny and end grain does not bond well with glue so I find them to be very weak, making the choice of glues very critical. Although Guillow's doesn't have this type of frame construction, the leading and trailing edge pieces are sometimes also very fragile due to edge to end grain joints with small surface areas for gluing.

[scigs30]

Glues have always been a great subject of topic during model building discussions. RC builders used to use balsa cements, then went to PVA glues and then CA glues when they became popular in the 80s. I know a lot of RC builders who are switching back to wood glues because they feel the CA makes for a brittle joint overtime. I would not know this since the oldest RC plane I have is from 1989 and it was built with Elmers Glue All. Other issues with CA are people are developing a sensitivity to the fumes, that cannot be good. I do laugh when RC builders say building with wood glue is just as fast as building with CA. I don't know what wood glue they are using but I know I can build much faster using CA than wood glue. The bottom line is that most glues are stronger than the wood being glued as long as there is a tight fit. For me, I like using Testors Cement and white glue for FF and white glue for RC and rockets. David, I don't want to sound like I am totally bashing the new Elmers Formula, It is just no longer a good fit for all my building needs. I am sure it works great for FF models and should be fine for covering.

[rayd]

scigs30....do you know if that rocketry post from Oct 2010, where guy said he'd be emailing Elmer's....by any chance do you know if they answered him? Might be infomative if we knew. I'm tentatively seeing old Elmers was better than new one, but hard to say for sure. I've noticed Titebond on-line but by the gallon or pail. Will pass. It'll just dry up and take up space. It's gonna cost me 4-5 bucks a small tube mail order for Testors. That's why I hoped for something more reasonable.

If I can't get halfway decent results from new Elmers, and am doubtful, (false advertising?), or from a house brand like Stop $ Shop, then I'll have to pay the piper and mail order Testors fast dry for assembly, and try white glue I've around for tissuing. (Maybe house brand will work.) Too much hassle/aggravation already and I'm sounding like a broken record, but Elmers disappointed big time. If I'm so inclined, I'll drop a note to the FTC, but won't likely matter. Haven't had much success with govn't agencies.

Don't think Elmers that concerned. I got cold answers by email and phone. Guess we're on own to make best choices. Hey, thanks.. you, David, and any other comments, send 'em on. I've 7-8 varous white glue 4 oz bottles, no scrapbooking, but neighbors kids could use for projects. This has been a lousy experience with white glues, not even getting to 1st base returning to hobby. Aah, will be ok, though better half will chase me into dungeon with Testors (another reason for wanting white glue)

Being a diehard Guillows fan for decades, but now "newbie" here, it might be nice if Guillows could look into the white glue issue if possible, it's not dead yet, and can affect many modellers. Thank you.

[scigs30]

Rayd, For most FF balsa builds the new formula Elmers, School Elmers and probably generic Elmers would work just fine.

[kittyfritters]

If you are in a hurry, both "White glue" and the aliphitic resin carpenter's glues (Elmer's Woodworker's Glue, TiteBond II, etc.) will set hard after about 20 minutes in a 200 degree (F) oven. Don't go over 212 degrees because the water in the glue joints will boil, blowing the joints apart. This is very handy when doing structures that require a lot of planking like the cowl on the Beaver in the photo.



You can also set the carpenter's glues with 20 to 60 seconds in a microwave oven, but I don't recommend it. Home microwave ovens are not as controllable or adjustable as the ones used in furniture factories and if you forget and leave a pin in the structure you are trying to cure you will have a fire. Photo shows result of a forgotten pin while working to a deadline.

[scigs30]

Looks tasty Howard. As far as glue goes, right now I am building an RC kit and it is laser cut and is put together like a jigsaw puzzle. The problem is you have to put it all together first to make sure it is straight, then you add the glue. Using a white or PVA glue would be a major PITA so I am using thin CA and at the stressful areas I add a white glue fillet.