Pre-shrinking and using pre-shrunk tissue questions

[jpuke]

I've learned more in the past few months than I ever did back when I was 16 and trying to build Guillows models and one trick I've started using is to pre-shrink tissue. I have a few question on the subject for you more experienced builders:

1) How do you shrink your tissue? I hijacked a picture frame from my wife and I cut off pieces of tissue about 10"x8" and glue them with a glue stick to the frame and shrink them with 50:50 isopropanol:water. This works well for 500 and 900 series size models but won't work well when I want to do something bigger. I only use the pre-shrunk stuff on tail surfaces and wings.

2) How much does pre-shrunk tissue shrink after you've covered the framework? I'm wondering because I thought I had a model pretty well covered but after doping it stretched more than I thought it would. (Aerogloss dope) I used Krylon on a model and didn't like the finish.

Any info or suggestions are always appreciated.

[SteveM]

1) I use a mist of water from a spray bottle.

2) I'm not sure, the last time I tried to pre-shrink it took all the shrink out and I had nothing left after covering the plane. Instead, I like to control my shrink by applying more or less water as needed.

Here is a great website on covering with tissue using dope and thinners and how to shrink it. This page is for the fuselage, he covers the flying surfaces on the following page: http://www.ffscale.co.uk/comp7.htm

[WIDDOG]

I also use the spray bottle method. I use Pledge Future Floor Shine to seal the tissue instead of Model Dope

[Phugoid]

The idea of pre-shriking tissue is to prevent the shrinking action distoring the structure (causing stress wrinkles and warps etc). However nearly all of the Guillows kits have very very hefty structures (even more so if the kit wood is used). If you are using the tissue in the kit, then this makes pre-shrinking even more unnecessary as it doesn't shrink a lot anyhow. Even with Esaki tissue I wouldn't bother. Just make sure you pin/clamp the structure down whilst the tissue dries. The other thing is to try and use steam from a kettle for a more gentle shrink if you think it may be too delicate for a full water shrink.
The thing to avoid IMO is shrking dope, this can really distort and twist, and I stopped using it when I was a kid for that reason.

Andrew

[flash52]

I did a Aeronca C3 float plane. The wing was of lighter construction than guillows. I was going for looks so I was applying multiple coats of yellow butylrate dope for a nice finish. When I was on my 3rd coat the wing looked like a banana. I was lucky that a retissue job saved the day. Since then I use colored tissue when possible and always weigh down or pin my wings and tail feathers.

[yellowlynn]

I have a simple question and need a very simple answer. I don't understand, or get into this preshrinking, etc., and I just use what paper is provided. After papering, I spray with water. Two things I am curious about: if I spray to shrink, then use a little sprayer to paint ( diluted with water), will that cause more shrinkage or just act as a coat of paint? Secondly, if I don't water-shrink it, but just ase the water diluted paint, will that work for both shrinking AND painting ?

I don't think this particular type of question has came up that I can find.

Lynn

[MakMov]

I agree, I don't get the whole pre-shrink thing either. I sometimes dont even use the kit tissue. I didn't even pre-shrink the kit tissue from my Peck Polymer Andreason peanut and it's straight as an arrow.

[Phugoid]

Peck use what i think is termed "Domestic Tissue". it is a bit like like the standard tissue (not silkspan!) as provided in the smaller kits but is better quality (less tiny holes), it doesn't shrink a lot either.

Yellowlynn, I dunno! I guess the best thing is to make some trial pieces and give it a go. I don't think that the tissue keeps on shrnking with repeated applications (it does a bit though, but there has to be a limit.)

If you used ink (instead of paint) in your spayer, that might work to colour the tissue I guess....

Andrew

[yellowlynn]

I have just finished the Cessna 180, model 601. It came with white and grey paper. The picture on the box shows red, and that is my color of choice. I intend to use my air brush to paint it. That is why I wonder, should I shrink it first, or use the water diluted paint to shrink/paint in one operation?

Thanks
Lynn

[Steve Blanchard]

Lynn,

Shrink it first so you get the results you want before painting. Sometimes when I shrink tissue there are some areas that are not perfect. I can usually dab on some water in that area and even use a blow dryer if necessary to get the wrinkle out. If it doesn't work I then get a new piece and replace the area that is in question. It would not be suggested to try and shrink the tissue using paint. If you had any issues and wanted to re-shrink a particular area how would you do it without ruining your paint job? I do not normally pre-shrink tissue. I use Japanese tissue exclusively, use glue stick to adhere it, and I shrink with alcohol. I do not use straight water unless I have an area as noted above. To color my tissue I usually use the color I want and make changes to it with chalk or Soft Pastels. This adds virtually no extra weight and you can make an unlimited range of colors using various colors of tissue and chalks. Try not to use paint on a completely different color tissue as you would need to add way too much paint to get the color you need. All of my models are built to fly so I always watch the weight. If it is for static then you can paint as much as you want.

Steve

[Phugoid]

All good points Steve.

Chalking is a good option as Steve said. I've never tried it myself, but I've seen some nice results by doing it. Got any links that show the method steve Steve? I'd like to try it myself sometime.

On the odd time I get a wrinkle, I spit on it! Not in fustration! But For some reason saliva seems to get rid of it (disgusting I know but....)

I add paint with an airbrush, it's only a really cheap ($20) one (I don't do fancy stuff with it) I use enamel paint thinned with cellulose thinners AFTER I've sealed the tiisue with Banana oil.

Have a look at some of Scigs paint jobs, I think he uses some acrylics, and some other stuff in rattle cans with super results. It's all too easy to get carried away with paint, so if you are planning to fly go easy and it's perhaps not best to paint it on with a brush.

I've often mused about the alcohol shrinking, I assume it is more gentle 'cause only part of the content of the alcohol is water (I don't think you can buy 100% alcohol can you?) is this the case? does anyone know?

I was disapointed with the grey tissue that came with the kit, I thought it might be the colours on the box for some reason.

Andrew

[Steve Blanchard]

Hi Andrew,

I have been chalking tissue for several years now and have really liked the results. A great primer is here at the Easy Built site http://www.easybuiltmodels.com/chalk.htm . Also you should check out Mike Stuart's site and look at some of Chris Parent's work. He is a Master. He even has a Guillow's 500 series Typhoon the link is http://www.ffscale.co.uk/cp.htm. The chalk is great not only for coloring but making a color such as Black or Red or even yellow more opaque by just chalking on the same color. Covering is no different although you will get some chalk residue on your fingers which of course is washed off very easily with soap and water.
As far as the alcohol is concerned there is no 100% alcohol. Most are 70% alcohol. I do not add any water. I soak the tissue and then pin it down for at least a couple of hours and if it is very humid I give it a day. I just want to be sure it is dry when I take it off the board.

Steve

[Phugoid]

Thanks Steve, I'll certainly give that a go, it seems like a good way to do a camo scheme, without using paint

[Steve Blanchard]

Andrew,

If you haven't done chalk on tissue before you definitely want to do some practice runs first. If not applied correctly the chalk can look washed out when you are done. You have to be sure to rub it in really good and it does take time. Good luck.

Steve

[Phugoid]

Cheers Steve, I'll do some trials as suggested, thanks for the advice.