Hello and my attempt at a Guillows Super Piper Cub 95 (602)

[Phugoid]

I agree with supercruser, the balance looks right in the second picture. I assume you have fitted the rubber motor at this point? If you haven't your balance will be wrong anyway

BUT. Don't worry about the nosedown tendancy yet, unless it really is a severe nose dive. If it is severe then go with supercruisers suggestion. If not Try the glide again with a few (50) winds on the motor and see what happens. If this low powered glide is good then you are probably OK.

Andrew

[BassettsAllSorts]

Hi Supercruiser

Thank you for the information. The plane was nice and balanced after adding the weight. I did another test throw in my bedroom and it glided a lot better. I have as feeling a little bit of weight needs to be removed, however, I'll test that when I take the plane outside.

I just weighed the plane with the added weight and it came to 29 grams - is this flyable?

Thanks for the compliment on the plane although the glue job on the left side leaves a lot to be desired. The next one will be better! I've really enjoyed making this one - The Cessna comes next!

Thanks Andrew and yes it had the rubber in it when I balanced it. I put the kit rubber in for now as I want to see how much I can get out of it. I know that the general consensus is that it is rubbish but I thought I would give it a go as the plans say if you build this to the plans it will fly! a low powered glide is the order of the day. I'll try the better rubber after a go with this one.

I didn't get a chance to take the plane out earlier because of the weather so I put the decals on. I'm adding a couple of pics including the poor glueing side.







Thanks again for all the help I'm slowly getting there. Sorry for all the questions.

Tom

[ADW 123]

I think 29 g is going to be fine. i think mine was a little lighter... i didnt add the landing gear wood pieces, tail gear... I did add a few extra cross formers on the fuselage, and i beefed up the LE of the wings

[BassettsAllSorts]

Thanks ADW

I can always take off the wood on the landing gear to save a tiny bit of weight. I might even chop the wire off if it means that it will fly!!!

I didn't add the tail wheel either I thought it was not necessary.

Tom

[Phugoid]

That's a nice looking little plane Tom, a smashing job.

The kit rubber might get you a 10s or so hop, but don't hold your breath.....29g AUW is pretty good for this model as standard, it will fly if correctly trimmed and with some decent rubber.

The test throws in the bedroom are useful BUT, the real glides outdoors or in a large room reveal a lot more of the flight patern.

Andrew

[BassettsAllSorts]

Hi Andrew thank you very much that means a lot. I'm really pleased with it and it'll be a shame to smash it into a million pieces! I think i'll reconsider the rubber then. It seemed like a good idea at the time!

I definitely cannot wait to get outside and test glide/trim properly.

That seems to be a whole new learning curve to trim the plane and get it flying properly. Although the back of the box has some great information on there.

Tom

[Shug]

Tom,

Interested to hear you had the same problem with the dope. I would be more inclined to try the banana oil from SAMS if it were not for the 4.50 postage!!!! I shrank the tissue with water first, then doped it, the doping seems to shrink up the tissue a lot more though, I suppose the main advantage of pre shrinking is that it is easier to weigh bits down if the model is just damp rather than covered in wet smelly dope. Sorry by the way, I realised after I posted that you had already doped your plane, still getting used to the way the posts appear on the forum! I'm jealous that your coloured tissue looks so good, you have done a really great job on it. I was so disheartened when my red tissue dried all discoloured, on what had been a pretty successful build up until then!!! We all learn from these mistakes though!!!!

Regards,
Shug

[Phugoid]

If you use the "standard" dope what you get it is Shrinking dope, ie it will shrink more on top of the water shrink, which can be disaterous on small and delicate models Obvioulsy this is where the banana oil comes in as it is a non shriking dope.....

You should still hold the surfaces down when they are doped though. just wait until it has "flashed off" a bit before you hold it down, and always space it off the table top to allow for air to get in and stop it sticking.

Tom you may notice the tissue go a little baggy if you take your plane outside on a damp day, don't worry 5 mins back in the house and will be tight again.

Andrew

[BassettsAllSorts]

Tom,

Interested to hear you had the same problem with the dope. I would be more inclined to try the banana oil from SAMS if it were not for the 4.50 postage!!!! I shrank the tissue with water first, then doped it, the doping seems to shrink up the tissue a lot more though, I suppose the main advantage of pre shrinking is that it is easier to weigh bits down if the model is just damp rather than covered in wet smelly dope. Sorry by the way, I realised after I posted that you had already doped your plane, still getting used to the way the posts appear on the forum! I'm jealous that your coloured tissue looks so good, you have done a really great job on it. I was so disheartened when my red tissue dried all discoloured, on what had been a pretty successful build up until then!!! We all learn from these mistakes though!!!!

Regards,
Shug

Hi Shug and Andrew

I did a reply a couple of minutes ago and it didn't seem to get posted so that's a real drag! It happened last night as well on the group build so I'll have to keep an eye on that. It took me ages to write it!

It basically echoed what Phugoid said about the dope. Non shrinking seems to be the way to go from what I have read on here. It is really demoralising to take all that time to build the models as straight as possible and then paper them with love to find the dope not set the tissue right! I felt the same with my first build. However if our planes fly we wont care what they look like. it could be covered with a bin liner and we wouldn't mind!

I also said that its a shame that my nearest shop that sells the banana oil is 45 minutes away otherwise I would post some to you as it should be cheaper. The postage really leaves a sour taste in the mouth and it also means that I have to wait until I have a big enough order to make it worth while. Its a shame because the kits and bits are not that expensive but the postage does seem to send it over the edge. Its a shame that there are not more model shops about.

If you want to re-cover your plane I have plenty of the yellow and red tissue left if you want me to send you up a sheet of each to Scotland. I got ten per pack and I only used less than one of each. I bought it from Als hobbies in store but I just looked on their website and they don't have the tissue on there but the postage would raise its ugly head again. I was pleased with the tissue and it shrank well with water.

Andrew - Thanks for the baggy tip I'll keep that in mind when I take the plane out. I also got a friend to pick me up the Cessna at the weekend from Als hobbies so I'll get that going shortly on the group build when I pick it up off of him (Rather late I know but better late than never). I need to source some blue tissue paper now - at least I have the yellow still.

Oh Andrew do you use PVA to glue on the balsa supports on the planes? I'm using balsa cement which leaves no margin for error if you spill it like on the left side of my plane! I bought some PVA from hobbycraft last week for my next plane - I like using the cement for the frames but I'm just not light fingered enough to use it on the finished paper.

Tom

[Phugoid]

Hi Tom,

I've had this thing time out on me in the past, so If I'm doing a long reply I at least do a "copy", then if it all goes wrong I simply "paste" back into a new post.

All of the group build thread is done in word first so I can have a good think about it!

Yes the postage thing is a pain in the bum I agree. I too have to save up a list before I order although for stuff like Banana oil and thinners there is still a good old fasioned model shop round the corner from where I work, I've gone there since I was a kid. The two owners are knocking on a bit so then it will be gone and I'll end up having to buy it by post. I still have to buy tissue and props etc from SAMS.

I use PVA for most things, I like the good old fasioned balsa cement, the smell and peeling it of my fingers takes me back 30 years......BUT I don't use it much anymore as the solvents in it can warp light balsa very easily.

As for the wing struts, I tend to use superglue (CA), first making a couple of pin prick holes through the tissue to the underlying balsa, the superglue then seeps through making a very strong joint, however it's a bit of a "crap shoot" as you only have one chance.............

Andrew

[BassettsAllSorts]

Hi Tom,

I've had this thing time out on me in the past, so If I'm doing a long reply I at least do a "copy", then if it all goes wrong I simply "paste" back into a new post.

All of the group build thread is done in word first so I can have a good think about it!

Yes the postage thing is a pain in the bum I agree. I too have to save up a list before I order although for stuff like Banana oil and thinners there is still a good old fasioned model shop round the corner from where I work, I've gone there since I was a kid. The two owners are knocking on a bit so then it will be gone and I'll end up having to buy it by post. I still have to buy tissue and props etc from SAMS.

I use PVA for most things, I like the good old fasioned balsa cement, the smell and peeling it of my fingers takes me back 30 years......BUT I don't use it much anymore as the solvents in it can warp light balsa very easily.

As for the wing struts, I tend to use superglue (CA), first making a couple of pin prick holes through the tissue to the underlying balsa, the superglue then seeps through making a very strong joint, however it's a bit of a "crap shoot" as you only have one chance.............

Andrew

Hi Andrew

Thanks for this - I have been using balsa cement and I like you enjoy taking it off of my fingers!

With the PVA how long does it take to dry once applied? What I like about the cement is that its relatively quick drying and you still get the time to move it and get it "right". I'll certainly try new things though.

I have some shops relatively near by that stock banana oil etc but to be honest I'll probably do 4.50 in petrol getting there so the saving will be minimal.

Its a small price to pay to get quality products!

Its great that you have a little local shop. It'll be a shame if it shuts maybe you should like someone said on an earlier post buy it up!! Although squaring it with the bank manager, or loved ones, might be hard!

Not sure I have the skills to get the super glue items in place in time!!!! maybe gluing my fingers together though!!!!

Tom

[Shug]

Tom and Andrew,

First of all thank you for the very kind offer of some more tissue but its ok, I have all the other colours left unused, and I sprayed the fuselage and tale of my Cessna with red plastikote enamel earlier today- Its now very bright red! This would have worked better had the pant not run a little in spots, but hey, I'm not gonna worry too much about it as I just want to get this build done now so i can get on with my other projects, and its probably gonna crash anyway!!!!! On the subject of dopes, the chap in my closest model shop (40 miles away in Edinburgh!!!!) said the same thing as Andrew about weighing down doped pieces to avoid warping- its seems my cessna has got away with it, the only bit that warped badly was the tail fin, and I can live with that!!! I couldn't get banana oil, but I got a new product to try, its called deluxe materials Eze Dope, its non cellulose shrinking dope that hopefully won't discolour the nice bright tissue. I will post some pics of the cessna when I assemble it all- probably in the next few days, so I will keep you posted!!!!

Shug

[BassettsAllSorts]

Hi shug

No worries I'll be interested to hear how you get on with the new dope!

Is your nearest shop wonderland models because that's in Edinburgh and I was going to suggest getting in touch with them as they sell a lot of stuff including guillows planes? I didn't do it because I never saw the banana oil on there. I also put it in google maps and saw you were a long way away!

I look forward to the pictures and I bet it looks great!!

Tom

[Phugoid]

I do drive a good way for some supplies. There is a model shop in a small village around 15 miles from my house. The old guy there mainly sells trains, but he seems to get some absolutely fantasticly light balsa wood branded "orbit". His stuff has a density of 6-8lb/sqaure foot (Guillows kits typically have 10-16lb/sqaure foot)

Here is my Veron Auster AOP9 built mainly with this wood. I actually use guillows wood in places (the main fuselage longerons etc) and it weighs just over 19.5g as seen in the picture with a 22" span and a huge wing area......

Once you've done the 180 Tom, I suggest you do a scratch build from an old kit plan. Although the guillows kits are readily available and a good start, there are some really good old kit plans knocking about.

Have either of you two guys seen Mike Stuarts sites?

http://www.ffscale.co.uk/index.htm

http://www.houseoffrog.co.uk/

Thye first is a general one for FF, with the "build your first scale model" pages which are great. The other is one dedicated to the FROG free flight kits from the 50's and 60's, quite a few of which I've built (you'll see pictures a couple of my builds on the FROG site)

[BassettsAllSorts]

I do drive a good way for some supplies. There is a model shop in a small village around 15 miles from my house. The old guy there mainly sells trains, but he seems to get some absolutely fantasticly light balsa wood branded "orbit". His stuff has a density of 6-8lb/sqaure foot (Guillows kits typically have 10-16lb/sqaure foot)

Here is my Veron Auster AOP9 built mainly with this wood. I actually use guillows wood in places (the main fuselage longerons etc) and it weighs just over 19.5g as seen in the picture with a 22" span and a huge wing area......

Once you've done the 180 Tom, I suggest you do a scratch build from an old kit plan. Although the guillows kits are readily available and a good start, there are some really good old kit plans knocking about.

Have either of you two guys seen Mike Stuarts sites?

http://www.ffscale.co.uk/index.htm

http://www.houseoffrog.co.uk/

Thye first is a general one for FF, with the "build your first scale model" pages which are great. The other is one dedicated to the FROG free flight kits from the 50's and 60's, quite a few of which I've built (you'll see pictures a couple of my builds on the FROG site)

That plane looks amazing Andrew. Not sure i'll be ready for scratch building just yet. Cutting out the parts may be a little beyond me at this stage but its the only way ill learn. I'll try to source some quality Balsa suppliers in the meantime.

I did go to those sites in the past after seeing the links in some old threads on here before I signed up on here. The links are not working at the moment but I am on my phone so that might be why.

If I can make planes as good as you guys on here ill be over the moon!

Tom