504 Spitfire Build

[BassettsAllSorts]

Hi guys

Finally finished my 504 spitfire tonight, except for the wing fairings. I'm really pleased with it and I feel as though I'm improving all the time. I now know what people mean when they say its tail heavy! Its going to take some serious weight to get this one ready.

The wood was a mixture of good and bad - some of it looked like it was attacked by a cheese grater and really heavy but for £10 I cant grumble. A good bit of sanding made it a little better.

Here are a few pictures of the build.

Weight of all of the wood



Notches cut



Half of the fuse done



Completed fuse



Completed wing



Dihedral added



Paper covering







Shrunk tissue



Doping



Finished plane







Sorry about all of the pictures and the quality (They were on my phone)! I really liked it that I could cut the notches in myself to get a straighter fuse and wing. I think it is safe to say that I am hooked on these great planes.

Could someone tell me what elastic is the best for trying to get these bad boys to fly (Or crash in my case).

I have a hurricane to build but I fancy a scratch build so I'll make a decision shortly on what to do. Oh and I need to finish my group build Cessna nose cone. I've got plenty to be getting on with especially planning for my new arrival - the time is coming round really fast and I'm not sure how many planes I'll build once the baby comes.

Have a great weekend guys!

Tom

[BassettsAllSorts]

Oh and it weighs 29 grams without balancing/weight so not sure it will fly!

[sawingman]

Your Spit looks great. Especially like the super covering job. Well done.

[BassettsAllSorts]

Thanks Sawingman

It was my first go with covering using the white glue 50/50 mix. I had used glue sticks before and had good results but I found this method much easier.

I really sanded a lot more than usual too to align the formers to the frame etc - it got tedious towards the end and my wife didn't like the mess in the front room!

I would have loved to put camo on it but I am just not confident enough to stick tissue on top to get that effect so I went with just all green with grey on the underside of the wing.

I managed to pick up a TBF Avenger over the weekend for £7.99 clearance price so I'll build that at some point.

I just need to stick the nose cone down (Its a little wonky in the picture) but I don't want to do that until I have bought the appropriate rubber for it. Do you know which rubber is best for this series?

Thanks.

Tom

[Steve Blanchard]

Hey Tom, Your last post about not wanting to glue the nose cone in until you got the proper rubber is making need to ask this question: You didn't glue the nose button to the nose cone, did you? You will need to have the nose button removable to change the rubber, wind the rubber, and adjust the thrust as needed. Just checking because of what you last wrote.

Steve

[Steve Blanchard]

By the way, You did a very neat and clean covering job. Good work!

Steve

[BassettsAllSorts]

Hey Tom, Your last post about not wanting to glue the nose cone in until you got the proper rubber is making need to ask this question: You didn't glue the nose button to the nose cone, did you? You will need to have the nose button removable to change the rubber, wind the rubber, and adjust the thrust as needed. Just checking because of what you last wrote.

Steve

Hi Steve

No its not glued - for the purpose of the pictures I put the stock rubber into the plane so that it would hold the nose button in place.

I may even leave the nose cone unglued as it fits rather snug - I'm still undecided. I'll decide when I get the correct rubber.

Although from what I have read they are very hard to fly unless you are scigs!!

Thanks for the comments - the esaki tissue is great to work with and I'll definitely be sticking with it in the future. Do you know what rubber is best for the 500 series?

Thanks

Tom

[wingnut]

well I haven't had a lot of success flying them, but the research/experience I have says if it's light than 2 strands(one loop) of 3/16" but more likely 4 strands(2 loops) of 1/8" rubber.

The spit looks great! and yeah...it will take a lot of nose weight...

[Steve Blanchard]

Tom,

You definitely would want to glue the nose cone in place. Even well fitted, well planned out front ends loosen up over time and the results can be disastrous. These planes are flyable if trimmed correctly but choosing to cut your teeth on a low wing fighter type, and a spitfire to boot, can be quite difficult. One of the things that can make it easier would be during the building stage would be to make the tail area as light as possible. Depending on the nose of any given model, 1 gram saved in the tail can be equal to or even more than 4 grams saved in the nose. Also, the size of the horizontal stabilizer may be a bit small for the spitfire and may need to be increased in size. The best way to check this is to take the plan and blow it up on the copier at say 115% to make it a little larger, paste this copy to a piece of thin foam from a meat packing container or a foam plate (whatever will fit the stabilizer and be flat). Cut out the new stabilizer from the foam, peel off the paper and replace the original stabilizer for test flights. All I can say about the size of rubber to use is that it all depends on the weight and the prop being used. I'd say that wingnut may have the best advice to start off. You will have to experiment with rubber sizes and thrust adjustments. Not knowing what your experience is, I'd suggest that the next thing you build be either a simple sport plane (not necessarily Guillow's) or a high wing cabin type. High wingers are much more forgiving and you'll get the sense of satisfaction seeing your model fly. I know this is a lot to digest from one simple question but there is a lot to flying these things sometimes. I wish you the best of luck with it and I hope you enjoy it. This hobby definitely a testament to the saying "The more the merrier".

Steve

[BassettsAllSorts]

Thanks wingnut and Steve

Make no mistake I do not expect this one to fly. I may just keep it as a static - then I can mess around with the camo tissue on top.

I'll probably see how heavy it is with the weight added before seeing if she is worth trying to fly and point taken on fixing the nose cone.

I have made the super cub guillows kit which flew and I'm in the Cessna group build which I'm hoping will also fly but I'm not so sure - my fuse is not quite straight. My poor construction skills!

I really wanted to just build a WW2 plane and use it as a test to get better with my papering skills. I have the hurricane and others but I might scratch build a plane with contest grade balsa, maybe off the House of Frog site. These first builds are very much a way of getting the building skills necessary to get them to fly. To be honest I'm a bit obsessed with the balsa plane building!! I just love putting them together. One day I hope to convert a guillows to rc and see how I go! Baby steps at this stage.

I am very much a novice in this game.

Thank you very much for your comments they are very helpful - Its the only way I'll learn.

Tom

[Phugoid]

Hi Tom,

I pretty well much agree with all Steve has said. You should glue on the nosecone, if it moves around it's curtains.

The spit is a nightmare to trim, the wing shape is not ideal for the low speeds and stability. At the end of the day the real thing had a huge lump of metal at the front in the from of the mighty Merlin, and was also designed to fly fast, unlike our little models.

A major problem with the Guillows stuff is the nosecone, there is no provision for the thrust adjustments that you need to do. On the cessna build I've managed to come up with something that might do, but it's still not ideal.

Go with that scrach build, the FROG designs are nice but again there was never any provision for a noseplug, and most have sheet tail feathers (therefore Making them tail heavy from the outset), and the construction is what you could politely call "robust" I do like them though and they do fly, so there could be worse choices.

http://youtu.be/0A1q1wv9ZiM

If you PM me your e-mail address I'll send you the plans for a couple of keil Kraft designs that are high wingers, have a proper noseblock and if built straight WILL fly.....They were designed by the legend who was Albert Hatful.

Andrew

[BassettsAllSorts]

Hi Andrew

That's great thank you. I'll pm you my email address. I thought it was a guillow's fokker d8 that my dad bought me many years ago, however, it turns out it was the Keil Kraft model. I have tried to get one on ebay and the one I forgot to bid on went for 15 quid and all the rest have been near 30! I could not bring myself to spend that much on the kit for sentimental value, but if you have the plans I will be forever in your debt!!

This forum has been great for info and you have helped greatly so cheers!!

Tom

[Steve Blanchard]

Tom,

Sounds like you are doing all the right things. Enthusiasm goes a long way in this hobby. When I first started building and flying 11 years ago I was building a plane a week. No joke. I was crazy for it. Still am but I've slowed down production considerably. I'm now more thoughtful about subjects and more into the detailing for scale fidelity. You will be doing great things. You already have some excellent work done on what I've seen posted. I really hope you keep going. It is a very rewarding hobby on many levels.

Steve

[Phugoid]

Ok no problems I'll include the D8 too. That one was designed by Bill dean I think.

As you can see from the picture I have a slight obsesion with old Keil Kraft and Veron Kits....I have all 25 of the flying scale series.

The other two I'll send are the Cessna 140 and the auster Arrow.

The plans are all PDF's and are full scale. I believe that the latest version of Adobe reader allows you to "tile print" large sheets, so you can print it off and simply tape it together.

What I didn't say was that's a super job on the covering, I assume that's Esaki.... A lot easier to work with isn't it?


Andrew

[BassettsAllSorts]

Hi Andrew

Thank you very much for that and yes you have one hell of a collection.

I look forward to looking at the plans and getting started.

Yes it was my first attempt with SAMs esaki tissue and I am very impressed. I also used the white glue 50/50 mix and it was much easier.

Tom