Newbie needing help with Spitfire #403

[Dr_Rendall]

Hi there,
This is my first model and I am a complete novice at this. I have been having trouble with converting my Spitfire, model number 403, to RC. The plans that came with the model show how to convert the tail and elevators but it does not show how to make moving ailerons. Does anyone have planes for this they could upload or give me reletively simplistic directions?
Thanks for your help.
David.

[Mfezi]

Hi there,
This is my first model and I am a complete novice at this. I have been having trouble with converting my Spitfire, model number 403, to RC. The plans that came with the model show how to convert the tail and elevators but it does not show how to make moving ailerons. Does anyone have planes for this they could upload or give me reletively simplistic directions?
Thanks for your help.
David.

Hi David

I am busy doing the same as you, but I have a few other projects to complete before I'll start the actual building. The plan instructions for R/C conversion were drawn before today's extremely small multi-channel systems were available. In fact, mine (from the laser cut kit) only shows instructions for installing a 1-channel (rudder only) system. The hinged elevator shown on the plans refer to control line conversion, not R/C. On these early radio control systems, actual flight could best be described as "guided free-flight", where you had some control over where the model went, but not much more. Here are some links for the nostalgic:
http://www.singlechannel.co.uk/
http://airplanesandrockets.com/electron ... system.htm

I would have been happy to share my sketches for the aileron conversion with you, but they are not finalised yet and only once I have actually built the model will I know whether everything works as intended. In the meantime, I think you will find the articles listed here extremely useful:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=827861

The link will take you to a list of radio control conversions (the more modern kind) of Guillows models that have been posted on rcgroups over the years. Miniature r/c technology is growing quickly, so you will actually notice how newer articles show smaller radio gear and more efficient propulsion systems.

Kind regards,
Bennie

[Mitch]

Hi David,

Here's my 2 cents worth. I have seen this model in RC form. The builder had 3 channels, Electric motor with thottle, rudder and elevator. No landing gear, so he hand launched the Spit. The wing was attached with rubber bands to dowel posts. The battery pack was in the center of the wing. The plane flew very fast, so I hope you are an experienced flyer.

I am currently building a few models and this is one of them, but for rubber power.

Good Luck

Mitch

[Dr_Rendall]

Thanks Mitch and Bennie, appreciate the help. I'll check out those links and do a bit more research, I think.
Mitch, I have never flown an RC plane before, so it will be an interesting maiden flight, but I figured that if I crash and burn I'll have fun building another one.
Bennie, I would be interested to see the progress on your version, compare notes, so to speek.
David.

[Mitch]

David,

Yes that would be fine. I have been an on again off again builder since I was 10yo (40+ years) I build all kinds of models but these kits have always been my favorite. These 400 series planes I think would make a great park flyer. I remeber the Spit being very fast because I was building and flying RC gliders at that time. The gent who flew the Spit hand launched his plane, and "belly" landed on the grass just fine.

I don't think my models are as nice as the ones I see here, but I always build with "Flight" in mind, and that is different than "Static"

I just try to build light and straight and I think of my models as disposable because any plane I have flown will at some point suffer damage and be "Retired"

Mitch

PS I work aboard ship so my comments will be intermittent. My current projects are Cessna 180 group build, 400 seris Spitfire and Messerschmidt, and I plan to kitbash Fokker Dr1 into a Fokker D8. I hope to have pictures of my "Hanger" when I finish these planes and go on vacation next month.

[Mfezi]

Hi David

I have flown many R/C planes, also going back about 30 years, but this will also be my first Guillows R/C conversion. I have flown many of my own designs over the years though (I am an aeronautical engineer), so I actually see this one as a more relaxing build. What I do know from experience is that for park flyers you want to keep things light at all costs. That means leaving off the landing gear and thinking carefully about keeping things simple. For example, if you don't have complex 3D aerobatics in mind, you don't need to have both rudder and aileron control - you can do it with one or the other and save the weight of one servo and the parts that go along with it. However, remember that if you go for rudder and no ailerons, you need to increase the dihedral slightly. Ailerons and no rudder, then consider using (through mechanical means as you probably will have only one central aileron servo) more up than down deflection on the ailerons to minimize adverse yaw. Of course, with today's light radio gear a four-channel model is quite practical: just always keep an eye on the weight.

All this said, you should maybe consider getting one of those cheap EPP ready to fly R/C models to practice on while you work on the Spitfire. Usually they will take quite a beating and are not bad to learn on. An alternative (or in addition) is to consider buying a R/C flight simulator to practice with. The guillows models can be quite a lot of work and it could be very discouraging if you end up crashing it on its maiden flight.

Regards,
Bennie

[Bill Gaylord]

Along the lines of what Mfezi says, I always maiden Guillows planes in the summer, at a field with 3 feet tall grass. Too much work invested to destroy them, while sorting out any issues in the process of getting to fly well. The tall grass is why I still have all these planes.

I have this plane flying well at nearly 15oz with an old brushed EPS350 setup. It was done before I was as concerned with tail lightening as I am now, and would be done differently if done again. The plane has the most wing area of the series at 1sq-ft, making it a good bit more weight forgiving than some of the others. They are all different though. I managed to put the 190 and Zero on my WTFLYR You Tube channel, which are both pretty similar. The only odd thing I found with the Spitfire, is that it wants a considerable amount of right thrust when compared with other warbirds. This is presumably due to the elliptical wing. After setting a heavy right thrust setting, it was one of the most hands-off launches I've ever had. Like a lot of these planes, they got a undeserved rep for being difficult, simply due to people who hadn't figured out the proper setups for the various planes. The ailerons on mine are interesting as they were added after the fact. I realized that rud/elev would be difficult to get flying well, and added torque rod ailerons to the wings. The rods are light and quite springy, under torque. You don't need as much aileron stiffness on these small planes as most people tend to think. My 190 actually flew rud/elev before adding ailerons, but it had to be flown very carefully, without the aileron control.

[Mitch]

HI All

I was home last week... but no power... winter storm in the NW (Seattle Area)

My Spit is ready for covering and I made the landing gear removable. Building the Spit with no other modifications, hopefully fly with rubber power. Just checking in to see how you are doing.

This past week I was working on my Dr1 conversion to D8 It has a 24-1/2 inch wingspan and longer fuselage.

Hope to cover both models this week and post pics at some point.

Mitch

[Bill Gaylord]

HI All

I was home last week... but no power... winter storm in the NW (Seattle Area)

My Spit is ready for covering and I made the landing gear removable. Building the Spit with no other modifications, hopefully fly with rubber power. Just checking in to see how you are doing.

This past week I was working on my Dr1 conversion to D8 It has a 24-1/2 inch wingspan and longer fuselage.

Hope to cover both models this week and post pics at some point.

Mitch

Interesting conversion idea. The fuselages of the 2 planes are similar.

[spikey1973]

Hey there

Here another newbee looking for 403 pack conversion to RC info.
Unfortunatly i'm in the middle of an exam period so I can't be to actively involved right now but I do have a ailerons conversion.
That Is I looked at the original plane and at the drawing and just started building the conversion. nothing really fancy so no clue if it works but well it's a conversion. Net to that I used the drawing conversions for the elevator and rudder.
All of it was kind-off supported by a veteran builder / shopkeeper.
anyway, if pictures of the ailerons are appreciated I can put them online.
for now i myself are more interested in 2-3 topics

1) conversion of the landing gear into retractable preferably using 1 nanoservo
or conversion to floats in a fassion like Charles_c did, but i have no plans of the rofe, so if anyone could help me with that issue, I can scale them myself.

2) what engine (brushless), and prop to use. on this my knowledge is exactly zero..except for what is mentioned above so any help on this would be appreciated.

and yes I know a spitfire, small model is nothing for a newbee to flow. we'll than it crashes. building is the fun anyway and i'll be training a sim on forehand (not that i think that will really help)

so. thank you all in advance and see you after my exams in a more active fashion.