Guillows Float Beaver for micro rc

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Guillows Float Beaver for micro rc

Postby Bill Gaylord » Sat Mar 31, 2012 6:54 pm

This kit was a nice surprise at the LHS a month ago, as I was not aware of the new release. I had been thinking about building a larger float Beaver recently, but this will do for now. I may enlarge the plans someday, for a larger build. I have the 24" Guillows Cessna 150 flying well at over 6oz, which will be weight target for this plane, if not hopefully lighter with conservative building, as the Cessna fuse is fully sheeted.

Guillows provided the plan for the optional float kit, so I opted to cut the parts by hand, using 1/32" for the formers and 1/16" for the keels. At this tiny size, cutting/notching these parts by hand is tedious work. :shock: After stringing, the floats will be sheeted with extremely light 1/32" sheeting that I have collected, whenever available. Careful covering with ultralight iron-on covering will be used for waterproofing and finishing, which has worked in the past, when properly done.

The front fuse was inset planked, to provide a more realistic metal covered look, on the curved areas. The 1/16" planking provides ample strength in the small areas without stringers, and was done that way to save considerable effort also. The tail servos are standard sub-micro servos, and the ailerons servos are Spektrum AS2000 linear servos, with an inline diode to drop the 5V BEC voltage, as the servos are rated at 4.2V. The receiver is a low cost 2.4gm BP Hobbies ZX Tech 4ch 72Mhz unit, which have worked well in 3 other planes. The motor is a Park 180 with a GWS 5" 3-blade prop planned for it.

Beaver_Guillows_3.jpg
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Re: Guillows Float Beaver for micro rc

Postby Bill Gaylord » Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:59 pm

Finished the hand cut float frames at 8.4gms total, and will sheet with very light 1/32" balsa. Building these little things with hand cut parts was too much like work! :shock: One thing to note is that the formers were cut as single parts versus halves, therefore the floats were constructed in mid-air, so to speak. As long as the keel notches are straight and true, I've built some of my straighter keel-and-former fuses by using this method, versus on the board, with planes up to 4ft span. The tip caps will probably be constructed with light 3/32" or 1/8" sheet, fitting the small parts to shape and then sculpting to final shape. I may sculpt them from solid balsa, but they would then need to be hogged out as much as possible to lighten.
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Re: Guillows Float Beaver for micro rc

Postby Bill Gaylord » Fri Apr 06, 2012 7:48 pm

This plane was designed with 2 stringers per fuse corner, which provides a nice round, versus a square corner using 1 stringer. I wouldn't add the weight of inset planking the corners to a rubber powered plane, but with electric power I'll live with the slight weight addition, for fully rounded corners done by inset planking. The window top framing was also inset planked, for a smooth surface after sculpting. When finished, I should hopefully end up with a very scale Beaver from this kit.
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Re: Guillows Float Beaver for micro rc

Postby The Cameraman » Fri Apr 06, 2012 11:38 pm

Hi Bill,

she's coming along real fine.

Regards

Reggie
Regards

Reggie
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Re: Guillows Float Beaver for micro rc

Postby Bill Gaylord » Sun Apr 08, 2012 12:23 am

The next step will probably be hinging control surfaces and installing the aileron servos, and then covering soon after. The oval float struts have also been fabricated. The AUW looks like it will be a good 5oz, although I have decent flying planes this size up to 7oz, so there's not too much concern there. These 24" span planes are not indoor flyers at this weight, however. The sheeted floats weigh 17gms total, which is par for the course when you want a float plane. Also added were rounded wing tips, which were hollowed out underneath to reduce weight, after sculpting. I guess after all the inset planking, I figured that I may as well go for nice rounded wing tips.
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Re: Guillows Float Beaver for micro rc

Postby Bill Gaylord » Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:03 pm

I saw Kittyfritters idea of using flexi-straws for small finned cyliners, which is part of what talked me into forming a simulated radial. In the past, I've wrapped string around cylinders, but the straws not only provide the fins, but are also light weight. For a kit this size, the cardstock radial is fine, but with inset planking, floats, and all, may as well go for a detailed engine. The cylinder heads are easy to make by cutting V-shaped wedges from balsa, rounding the outer corners, and then sanding a notch with a piece of folded sandpaper.
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Re: Guillows Float Beaver for micro rc

Postby ADW 123 » Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:51 pm

curious what you pay for your electronics and where you get them
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Re: Guillows Float Beaver for micro rc

Postby Bill Gaylord » Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:49 am

ADW 123 wrote:curious what you pay for your electronics and where you get them

A number of places, although the Horizon stuff like the Park180 and Spektrum servos are from the LHS. The servos aren't bad at $14 each, but I normally won't pay $30+ for the motor. The motor was not supposed to be there, as I told the LHS that Horizon had lowered the price to $30, which they now sell for a week later there, but he wouldn't give me that price. Buy from an LHS regularly, and you'll watch them take you for granted, serving other customers and viewing you as a bother, if you need something. I've found too many good micro motors for $10, to pay Horizon's price for the Park180. The little 10gm HXT unit is a favorite, although I won't buy from HK, but it can be found for a buck or so more in the states. ELE and AEO seem to be good micro motors. I was getting them from Hobbypartz, although they seem to be out of stock on them for a while. I had a BP Hobbies Welgard micro motor in the plane, but the wires were poorly strain relieved, and broke from gently flexing them to fit within the confines of the cowling, even securing the wires at the motor so as to not strain them. The windings were so weak that they apparently still pulled a bit inside the sheathing, and broke inside the motor. I got the Park180 as I wanted something now, and later actually repaired the motor as one of the most insane repairs I've ever done. I actually got inside the motor housing window with a pintle tip and soldered repair leads onto the broken off motor leads, that had maybe 2mm of length to solder onto. It seems to run fine now, and maybe will be used in something else someday. The lessons here are that good micro motor have the wires well strain relieved, as well as being setup to exit the motor in such a way that they can fit within a small cowling.
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66297

The ESC is a Castle Tbird, although I generally use the low cost ESCs from Hobbypartz. The Tbird-6 is a good ESC for these small models, but it costs over $20 also. You have to become familiar with the various ESC designs, as they are sold under various labels, but are from the same manufacturer, or at least same design. There are a number of good ESCs all the way up to 20A or so, that sell for around $10. I've been buying these, as I'm too poor to keep paying Horizon prices. The Exceed 6A ESC at Hobbypartz is technically a Pentium ESC, which was the name they were first marketed under. They sell for $10 and under, and will handle 3s from my experiences, although not speced for 3s. The little BP Hobbies ZXTech 2.4gm receiver is a gem, for around $12. It's 72MHz and uses the same crystal as the single conversion GWS and Berg units use. I actually find 72MHz to be a good thing, as I've run out of model memories on my 2.4G unit, and I generally fly the micros in areas where I'm not worried about others on the same, or adjacent channels.

The small Spektrum bricks are nice, but also not cheap. They now have a brushless 3A brick that I've used, but for around $70 it's not cheap. I've also reprogrammed the older brushed bricks to drive BL ESCs, although you then have to use an external BL ESC. The one issue with them is that they only have 2 onboard servos, so you still will need an aileron servo, unless you do something insane and run a bellcrank down to the ailerons from the rudder servo, as I did on my Guillows micro Stuka conversion. For servos, the Blue Arrow 2.5 is a favorite of mine, and they have come down in cost to under $10, but they are also difficult to find lately. I should have stocked up on more, when I had the chance. I've even got some good knock-offs for only a few dollars, that have the high resolution amplifiers and work as good, if not better than any BA I've had. Lesson learned: stock up on stuff that costs much less than similar stuff from the big brand names, when you have a chance. For $14 though, I'll probably use more of the Spektrum micro linear servos. This plane has BA 3.7 servos for the rudder and elevator, which I'm tempted to tear out, as they are heavy. The under 2gm linear servos would be better.
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Re: Guillows Float Beaver for micro rc

Postby The Cameraman » Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:45 pm

Hi Bill,

I've just tried to view this thread and I cannot see the images that have been posted, either the earlier one's or those added yesterday.

I'm logged in as myself so wonder if I'm doing anything wrong?

All I see is this box etc?

ATTACHMENTS

Looks a bit better with some paint on it.
Beaver_Guillows_17.jpg (49.24 KiB) Viewed 20 times

Radial engine in place. Too bad the 3-blade prop blocks so much of it from view.
Beaver_Guillows_18.jpg (44.58 KiB) Viewed 20 times

Regards

Reggie
Regards

Reggie
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Re: Guillows Float Beaver for micro rc

Postby Bill Gaylord » Thu Apr 12, 2012 6:12 pm

The Cameraman wrote:Hi Bill,

I've just tried to view this thread and I cannot see the images that have been posted, either the earlier one's or those added yesterday.

I'm logged in as myself so wonder if I'm doing anything wrong?

All I see is this box etc?

ATTACHMENTS

Looks a bit better with some paint on it.
Beaver_Guillows_17.jpg (49.24 KiB) Viewed 20 times

Radial engine in place. Too bad the 3-blade prop blocks so much of it from view.
Beaver_Guillows_18.jpg (44.58 KiB) Viewed 20 times

Regards

Reggie
Sounds like a permissions issue for the admin Mark, unless you can figure out the login issue. I imagine you're not logged in properly for some reason. I logged out, and could not see any photos on any threads. When I'm logged in they all view fine.

Got some small details out of the way, although they really burn through the time. I shaped the float struts and cut them a bit longer than needed, as they will be fitted at assembly. The strut mounting notches were also cut in the fuse. Fabricated the battery door with slide latch, using GWS hinge material and also tested the plane for overall balance. The little radial dummy engine turned out to be a good thing, as I needed the nose weight. I may need a few grams of nose ballast once the rear fuse covering is applied, but it looks pretty good and shouldn't require anything drastic, with the 3s-300 lipo mounted as far forward as possible, directly above the battery door. Also printed the "Beav-Air" decals on white decal paper, trimmed them out, and then applied clear tape over them for a watertight application.
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Re: Guillows Float Beaver for micro rc

Postby The Cameraman » Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:14 am

Hi Bill,

I tried logging in and out again. I can see images on other posts but not yours. I'l contact Mark and see how it go's.

Regards

Reggie
Regards

Reggie
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Re: Guillows Float Beaver for micro rc

Postby Bill Gaylord » Fri Apr 13, 2012 7:44 pm

Just took out a somewhat similar Guillows plane in weight and size today for a flight, which I haven't flown in a few years. I should fly it more often, as it's a lovely trainer like flyer. The Cessna 150 with RET controls also shows that the Beaver should fly well, as the Cessna has a 5.2oz AUW and an aft CG of 33mm from the wing LE, but is still stable. The plane has flown well at closer to 6oz in the past, with a heavier battery. Here's a video clip of the Cessna 150 flying this evening:
http://youtu.be/U7gySPVBtyo
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Re: Guillows Float Beaver for micro rc

Postby Bill Gaylord » Sat Apr 14, 2012 6:02 pm

I generally tend to burn out when I get to the covering stage, but at least you get a bit of a break with these small models. The fuse was covered with only 2 sheets, with the bottom covered first, and the top and sides done with a single sheet. The sculpted inset planking added to the rounded fuse corners was a benefit here, as it provided large areas for covering overlap. Also spent some time fitting a bit of balsa in the battery box to create borders to cage the battery. I could have made the access door a bit larger, but they look cleaner when smaller, and I didn't want to hack any fuse formers as it really wasn't necessary. Installing the battery, pushing the connector and harness into the plane, and then closing the door is almost as difficult as the commercial where the monkey is trying to hammer the square block into the round hole. When the floats and cross braces are in place it will be even more exiting, such as installing the battery in my Guillows DR1 and other WWI planes, where the front landing gear and bracing wire make battery door access difficult.

This is the scheme that will be on the plane:
Image
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Re: Guillows Float Beaver for micro rc

Postby Bill Gaylord » Sun Apr 15, 2012 9:06 pm

Getting fairly close now. All the float struts are fabricated and ready to assemble, with some careful fitting and trimming of course.
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Re: Guillows Float Beaver for micro rc

Postby kittyfritters » Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:50 pm

Now that's very interesting! I did not know that you could paint Microlite.
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