Which Guillow's series is next for being Laser Cut?

[Pauli72]

I was just wondering if anyone out there has heard rumors as to which series of Guillow's airplanes is going to be updated to laser cut kit format next.

Currently the laser cut line up includes:
* 200 series-(WW I)
* 300 series-(private planes)
* 400 series-(scale WW II)
* 700 series- (built light, rubber flier)
* 1200 series-(Wright flier)
* 4000 series-(build 'n fly)

I was also curious if anybody has had negative feedback regarding Guillow's laser cut kits v. die cut, (die-crunched) kit's as well.

[Bill Gaylord]

I haven't heard any feedback either on the laser cut kits Pauli72. I'm interested in hearing about their accuracy, and if they conform closely to the original design. The fact that these kits are "reverse engineered" into CAD/laser cut is a bit unusual. I had thought about building a second version of some of the warbirds, as I have a number of afterthoughts with many of my earlier builds. The laser cutting makes them even more appealing. The only thing that doesn't, is that the price has doubled in 8 years.

[Wildpig]

I've only built one laser cut kit. The only negative I found was the edges of the parts were browned by the laser. But, it was really no big deal. I either cleaned up the edges with sandpaper or just ignored it if it isn't visible when assembled.

[Bill Gaylord]

I've only built one laser cut kit. The only negative I found was the edges of the parts were browned by the laser. But, it was really no big deal. I either cleaned up the edges with sandpaper or just ignored it if it isn't visible when assembled.

I often forget to clean that off, and it shows through the covering. I believe bleach, or maybe some other solutions will remove it, without sanding away any material. Even worse are part numbers showing through the covering.

Modern CAD could give the opportunity to make some of these designs easier to build, but I haven't heard of any such changes to the design. I'm reworking my old P51 build (close your eyes, it's not up to my recent standards) by building new tail feathers and wing. Hand cutting actually produces more accurate parts than the die-cut parts, when done accurately, but it is still not an easy wing to construct. The old hand drawn designs basically take the easiest approach, which is to build a perimeter from stock, and piece it all together to match the plan. For the P51's LE, this is a bit of effort, as it has a few jogs. With CAD, you can slice through the formers and design a plate for the wing center, that would create the complex LE and form the dihedral, all at the same time. Definitely some opportunities here to make the builds a bit simpler.

We'll do the LE a bit differently here, making a 1 piece LE with dihedral and LE profile pre-set. Not an easy part of this wing construction.


Not the easiest wing to construct and build straight.


It just came to my mind today, that I could have ordered the laser cut wing sheet parts for this kit. I'll definitely do that the next time. The laser cut parts provide a really good option, for those of us wanting to rebuild parts of our old kits. The old P51 below, with new tail feathers and wing under construction.

[Bill Gaylord]

The laser cutting makes them even more appealing. The only thing that doesn't, is that the price has doubled in 8 years.

I just bought the new laser cut version of the Cessna 150 with a 40% -off discount coupon at Hobby Lobby (the Okie crafts store). They usually have a few G kits in stock, the new ones are starting to come into the inventory. Any way it was 16 bucks and change with tax...

They run a 40% off coupon every week. Just print it out and give it to the cashier when you check out. A great deal!

If I'm ever in the area where they are at, I'll have to stop there. I looked them up and found one around 50 miles away. With gas prices these days the LHS is in close competition, being 1/4 mile off my regular drive.

I'm sure you'll like the 150. Laser cutting should be a good thing for it, as it flies better when the wing incidences are matched at the fuse. Accurate parts help. I had a very interesting flight with this plane, before correcting the problem. It's now a good flying plane, but not an Indoor Flyer at 5.2 oz.

[ADW 123]

Dunno what's taking so long....

[Pauli72]

Dunno what's taking so long....

Hey ADW,

I never got to ask how the B-17 was received by your old H.S. teacher. That's a really great lookin' bomber!

Are you waiting for a specific kit to get released in laser cut?

I would kind of like to see the 1000 series kits be next at bat for the laser cut upgrade.

[ADW 123]

My teacher took a fall the day before i was to give my plane to him... he has been out of school since and I am waiting for his return to surprise him with my completed build. shhh

I just think this laser cutting thing is too slow... guillows really is falling behind here. The technology has been available to laser cut long enough for guillows to convert all of the kits to laser. I dont know why they wanted to wait so long to get started. Just isnt doing it for me.

[Pauli72]

ADW,

Have you, or anyone reading this, rebuilt a laser cut kit, that you had previously also built in die cut? Pro's and con's of either, having had built both kits for the same model.

I'm sure your teacher will be thrilled with the B-17. Just make sure he's seated when you present it to him. LOL!

[ADW 123]

cant be hard considering i can send in a CAD of the plans and have them cut out no problem.

[kittyfritters]

Yes, it would be simpler to laser cut the parts from scans of the original layouts, but you don't want to do that. The parts sheet layouts should be redrawn to take advantage of laser cutting.

If you die cut, intending to leave the parts in the sheet, you use blade type dies, not the punch dies used for metal or cardboard. They are expensive and tricky to build. When laying out parts for die cutting, generally, half of the parts, fuselage formers for example, are laid out for one sheet of balsa. This way you do not have to try to accurately duplicate the cutting dies for each part. You stamp it out of two sheets, the right and left outlines were cut by the same die, and the outlines are identical. The problem for the builder is that the two sheets of balsa are usually not the same density, weight, or strength. With keel and former construction, this can lead to "banana fuselage" unless you use an alignment jig to build the fuselage. In flying models this can also lead to serious lateral weight distribution problems and additional warping when shrinking the covering. I won't even go into the issues that occur as the dies wear and the quality of balsa varies from production run to production run.

With laser cutting this is all much easier because you lay out the right and left parts, interleaved, on the same sheet of balsa. The part is cut by a laser beam guided by an image and is accurately reproducible as often as necessary. This way the corresponding parts are, as much as possible, cut from the same piece of real estate on the balsa sheet, making laser cut models much more easily built straight than die cut models. Also, parts can be spaced closer and more intricate parts can be cut than would ever be possible with die cutting. (If you have ever built the Wright Flier kit you have seen a prime example of this.) This is why the laser cut kits of existing series seem to have been "reverse engineered". The parts sheet layouts were redrawn to take advantage of laser cutting.

I'm not a Guillow's employee, have never visited the plant, and have not yet built a laser cut Guillow's kit that was not designed for laser cutting (Wright Flier, Beaver and Porter), so I have no direct comparison of the pre-laser cut to laser cut kits, but I would imagine that they took the time to make some other small improvements in the plans and kit assembly probably needing revisions and reprints of plans and instructions. All of this takes time and they don't have a staff the size of General Motors to get it done.

[Bill Gaylord]

For all the work involved in reissuing these kits as laser cut, I'd just as soon see Guillows release more new laser cut kits. I really have no problem with die-cut kits.
For anyone who has hand cut parts for as many scratch builds as I have, they would understand. I basically see a die-cut kit as an ARF, at this point in life.

[kittyfritters]

For all the work involved in reissuing these kits as laser cut, I'd just as soon see Guillows release more new laser cut kits. I really have no problem with die-cut kits.
For anyone who has hand cut parts for as many scratch builds as I have, they would understand. I basically see a die-cut kit as an ARF, at this point in life.

Ah, Yes! There are those of us who are old enough and have been doing this long enough to remember what direction to cut balsa around a part. I've been doing this so long that I still do it, automatically, when cutting foam core board even though it has no grain.

[Pauli72]

Thanks to Kittyfritters for the insight as to the in's and out's of how die-cut v. laser-cut are manufactured.

What really got me thinking about this was a post from April 10th, Any chance of getting it to fly with rubber power? by jpuke. In it, he was having so much trouble with bad balsa, and crunched/broken pieces that he completely gave up on a die-cut 1000 series, P-47 Thunderbolt. I would bet a shiny new quarter that, had this kit been laser-cut, it would still be on his workbench instead of in the local landfill. Then he went out and bought a Dumas, laser-cut P-47 kit.

My suspicion (and reason for this thread) is that most of you, as have I, built enough die-cut kits that it doesn't really bother anyone terribly to deal with the occasional bad rib, or former. Granted, It's a pain in the empennage to fabricate a new part from additional stock balsa, but it hasn't stopped anyone from buying another Guillow's die-cut kit. Or has it?

Being someone who is usually one of the last to embrace a new technology (e.g. Kindle e-Reader v. Good ol' paper book) I just recently, and hesitantly bought a Guillows 400 series Mitsu Jap Zero, laser-cut kit, because it was on a closeout sale. Intending to build it at a later time, when my current #2001 P-38 project is finished. I previously built this same die-crunched version Zero kit years ago, and lost it to an .049 freeflight "mishap". When I opened and inspected the contents, I was truly impressed with the laser-cut parts. They are awsome! So I will not be like the dinosaur in the tar pit as to this die-cut v. laser-cut situation. I agree with ADW123 that the laser-cut changes can't come soon enough. Especially for the benefit of the first time Guillow's balsa builder.

That was the reason why I asked for input from those who've built the same kit in both die-cut, and laser-cut format. Other than the burn marks on the edges mentioned by Wildpig, which as he said "no big deal", I don't see a downside to laser-cut kits. I know the changes are slowly coming, and I am patient. However; I just hope no kits are dropped from the line up because they will be too expensive to change over.

Thank you to those who have commented on my question. Any, and all further comments are welcome, especially as to my original question(s).

[jpuke]

I didn't toss my P-47 kit, I put it away for a time when I'm more patient. I'd been looking at the Dumas kits for a while because they sold a smaller version of the P-47 but the "laser cut" feature was the clincher for me. I scanned the balsa parts sheets and had the plans blown up to 180% so I can make a Guillows sized (31" span) P-47 at some point when I want to spend the money on some good wood and cut the parts out myself.

I still have a foot locker full of Guillows kits that I bought back when I was single and I'll get to them at some point. Mostly I wanted a P-47 and the one I had made its construction too much of a pain for the time I have to dedicate to it right now.

I also plan on building a blown up 500 series Hellcat (20" span) when I get a chance. I really like the Guillows kits and the "overbuilt" structures. The Guillows wood is great for using as templates to cut out new parts from better wood so I'll be keeping and enjoying them for a while.

If all Guillows kits were laser-cut and remained as easy as they are to find, I'd be Guillows all the way.