400 series Battle of Britain

[Mitch]

ALL

OKAY... I HAD LIMITED SUCESS... That means I consider that the plane actually flew a distance under the power of the rubberband. Not just a powered crash! THIS IS GREAT NEWS!

Got to Field and set up table...



First decide to do another test gluide with the 109 as she was veering to left with power... want to confirm trim and balance. Since I have done this before and have now have lots of room, I hold the plane over my head (About 7 feet off the ground) and give a good toss. She glides straight and true and goes about 10 paces or 30 feet!



Now I know that the veering problem is prop induced. I trim thurst to right but it made no difference so I put the thrust trim in the down direction. I figure this will give my wing better angle of attack. To correct veer to left I add aieleron with card stock.



I get ready for my next flight and things go pretty well. A few more flights and she is starting to get some "Battle Damage" She has a "Flak" hole in the bottom of her starbord wind and she lost the swastika on her Port Fin.




For my last flight, I decide to add MORE POWER. Go for 20 turns... 300 winds on the last flight.



I would say the plane actually flew, slowly in a left turn when it touched down it spun to the right.



ACTHUNG EINER MESSERSMITT FLEW OBER 15 METERS

I decided that was enough for one afternoon. The rubber is showing some deterioration and I will switch out to tan for future flight tests

Mitch

[Wildpig]

You are getting serious, now. Brought a field table, winder, notebook. That glide flight when the 109 went straight ahead for a 30 foot glide,, very nice. Considering the size of the model (wing loading) and these are still initial tests, well done.

I understand what you are trying to do with flight test as built per the Guillow plans. This will give you a baseline of data, so that you can see what affect different changes have on the basic design. S.B. is essentially correct, changes made such as different rubber motor will cause trim changes and you will have to go back and retrim the aircraft. But, since this is a science experiment, I don't see why you can't continue on your present course. I guess it's just something to be aware of what's involved. Glad to see you brought a notebook.

Just for clarity's sake:
Washout/washin is usually done during construction of the wing. Yes, you can steam a built wing.
Washout: reduced angle of incidence of the outer portion of the wing compared to the main portion of the wing.
Can be accomplished by raising the trailing edge of the outer portion of the wing.
Washin: increased angle of incidence of the outer portion of the wing in comparison to the inner, main portion of the wing.

[Wildpig]

its not that hard to transfer. wind it on the winder, pinch the end a couple of cm away from the winding hook and slide it off the winder. .....

Might no be hard for you. But on a 94 degree day and my hands are sweaty and that rubber is lubed real well, that bugger can get away from ya' (me).

[Mitch]

Although I have had the winder for some time this was the first time I used it. My stooge is just a couple of popsicle sticks held to the edge of the table with clamps. I just tossed everything in the back of my truck and drove the 2 blocks to the schoolyard. So I had all the supplies here in the garage, I just had to put them together for this task.

I feel I am satisfied with the 109 for now and will give her a rest. I want her to fly more and gain some altitude but that will be with tan rubber. I ordered some rubber lube from SIG and some other supplies and will re-engine the 109 when I get that order in.

Until then I can test the Spitfire with the Guillows rubber... so here we go again... stay tuned...

Mitch

[Steve Blanchard]

Great job Mitch!

Keep up the good work. It takes time to learn to trim these things correctly and even when you have the knowledge some of them are just not very cooperative. Glad to hear you are having success.

Steve

[Mitch]

I spent a little time watching some youtube this AM. Let me say again my flights were very LIMITED. But the plane was flying. I am taking little steps. I am looking forward to putting in longer tan rubber. I realize this is a MUST DO. When I do that I will anchor down my work table / stooge. I hope I can achieve the maximum potential these planes have. I am already thinking about a rubber powered P-38. I haven't seen that one.

Mitch

[Steve Blanchard]

The P-38 is a great twin subject. If you want to build it for rubber I would suggest you look for a good plan for it. There have been several successful Rubber powered models of it built and flown. Not sure what plans were used but I'm sure there are several. I know a friend of mine had built the comet plan at around 30" and lost it out of sight. It just flew away after several minutes.

Steve

[Wildpig]

The Comet P-38 is a good candidate. Since Guillow's bought out Comet in 1998(?),you could post your build and flying thread here.
Plans are available from the usual sources. Odd thing about Comet plans is they don't typically have patterns for the formers or ribs. But, I have seen copies of the patterns posted on the internet, somewhere.

You pack in that Tan II and you're going need to anchor that stooge.

By the way, I was told by an experienced modeler not to use the wooden motor peg with big rubber motors.
Instead use a 1/8" diameter hollow aluminum tube. If your local hobby shop or craft store has a KS Engineering display, it should have aluminum tube.

[ErickV]

Mitch, both of these models are truly an inspiration!I like the look of tissue rather than colored dope,even though it may not be 100% scale.
I'm mostly a sport model builder and just enjoy the look of a tissue covered model.Will look forward to hearing how they flew when you
repair the cat damage.I know what that is like,one of my cats just landed on my F4u Wildcat model and crunched the left wing tip.O well!
Thanks again for the great photos.
Erick V

[Mitch]

Thanks Erik and Everyone.

I love modeling and enjoy painting plastic models, but I think these balsa models look cool with just colored papered. Why cover up all that work you do. Also remember I built all these models on a ship in the Gulf of Alaska in the wintertime! Some of them had to undergo repairs before final assembly. Darn! That meant more weight!

Heres a view of the "Stooge" I plan to use tounge depresors instead of pop sticks and will use aluminum tube instead of wood dowel, I will also add Eye Bolts to the table and anchor my table to the ground with tent stakes.

I like the way I use the clamps because I can adjust it to the width of the Fuselage.

This pic was taken before I lost the Swastika. The tail has only one coat of dope and I supose the decal did not stick well to the paper. I am always trying to save weight.



Mitch

[Steve Blanchard]

Mitch,

Please be very aware of the tension as you wind a rubber motor with a winder on that stooge. To get anywhere near the max winds for good duration you are probably going to overpower that stooge's holding abilities. There are several other designs for stooges that will do a safer (I don't want to say better) job. Also the amount of rubber those will require will be dependent on the prop you use. I would suggest either a 9" or 8" prop with 4 strands (2 loops) of either 3/16" or 1/4" Tan Super Sport rubber. The weight of the model and the size of the prop will dictate if you need the stronger motors. I'm also not sure if your winder will be able to get those size motors to max winds. You may need to use an hold hand crank drill with a hook in the chuck, otherwise you are looking at a larger, more expensive winder. Sorry if I am being a gray cloud but I'd like to offer as much experience to you so not to have disaster strike just as you are having success.

Steve

[Mitch]

Steve,

Thank you for your comments, as I am a total newbie to using tan rubber, and a winder. I have 3/16", and will plan to use that. I will experiment first with the "Blue Flame" (see other post), and take it easy at first. I have had my share of catastrophic rubber failures as a kid, but now I getting ready to fly with the "Big Boys", I plan to take it easy until I understand the performance of the tan stuff. I have an "Old Fashion" Egg Beater Type Drill and will now plan to use that. The instuctions that came with my winder said it was for indoor use. It works for now and saves me alot of time. My "Stooge" was not built specific for these planes, rather I just took what I had in my Garage and put things together... again it works for now.

I appreiciate ALL advice coments and questions. Speaking of Grey Clounds, its looking pretty grey here today, so no flying today.

Cheers, Mitch

[Steve Blanchard]

Mitch,

I'm glad I can help. For a stooge you could use a wire hanger bent into a V shape. The ends of the V shape will have Loops bent into it. You take the V and attach it to your table as strong as possible. If you use a hollow Aluminum peg to hold the motor, all you have to do is put a wire through one loop of the V then through the motor peg and last through the other loop of the V. Cheap, easy, and fast.

Steve

[Mitch]

Steve,

Found this in my garage this AM...



I'll need to make a hook for it but that's no big deal... I'll miss the 15:1 wind ratio, but I could feel I was pushing that winder to it's limits already... This drill is about 4:1 ratio and it will be alot easier to turn the crank, than wear out my poor finger! I see guys on YouTube using a power drill but I do not want to do that yet. I want to have the feel for it! There models are bigger, and I understand that although these models have a good compresion strength, they do have limits and they are very fragile in certain respects.

I will install tan rubber when I get my lube from SIG, until then I will use the Guillows Grey, with Armor-All as my lube.

Mitch

[Wildpig]

On another thread, I mentioned using a cordless drill to wind the rubber. My drill chuck has been modified to grab the wire hook. Just chucking in a piece of wire like you would any twist drill will likely slip out.