Double Trouble

[Mitch]

Hey Guys... Just food for thought. Last April at WESTFAC IV there was a competition called "Double Trouble". There were ONLY 4 PLANES ENTERED!!!
Next year I plan to enter a plane. Before I build and try to fly the Guillows P-38. I thought I would go with what has worked with me so far... The Me-109!

Here is my plan for the plane of 2014...

Meet the Me-109 Z-1 !!!



I plan to use Guillows 400 series fuselages, and make my own wing and tail. The model will have the required details, but NO landing gear. I am going to order some parts from Guillows tomorrow. I think this would be an easy conversion and have VERY good motors!!!

Let me know what you think!

Mitch

From the INTERNET: The Messerschmitt development department received a directive in 1942 to begin work on a Zerstörer (destroyer, or heavy fighter). An earlier RLM directive of 1941 had tried to limit the amount of new designs coming from the major aircraft companies (to not disrupt the production lines with new aircraft), so it was decided to couple two Bf 109 fuselages together, along with a new center wing and tailplane section, to come up with the Me 109Z (Zwilling, or twin).
The Me 109Z prototype incorporated two Bf 109F-4 fuselages, joined with a new constant chord wing center section and parallel chord tailplane. Included also was the 109F-4 powerplant, the Daimler Benz DB 601E-1 engine (12 cylinder, liquid-cooled, inverted V - 1750 horsepower on takeoff). The main landing gear attachment point were moved inboard to attach to a strengthened centerline keel in each fuselage. The outermost main landing gear retracted outboard; the inner legs retracted into the new center wing section. A single pilot sat in the port cockpit and the starboard cockpit was faired over. Armament on the projected production models varied (see below).
Several other Me 109Z designs were planned, developed around the 109G fuselages. The Me 109Z was to use around 90% of pre-existing 109 parts, with only the new main wing and tailplane, modified landing gear mountings, slightly larger wheels, extra fuel tanks in place of the starboard cockpit and a few other components needed to complete the aircraft. A prototype was completed in early 1943, but it was damaged in an Allied air attack on the Messerschmitt test center, and the damage was deemed too severe for repair. The development was abandoned in 1944, and by then, the Me 262 jet fighter had taken wing. One interesting note: the North American aircraft company followed the same design (independently) to produce the P-82 Twin Mustang, which was two P-51 fuselages joined in a similar manner as the Me 109Z

[Steve Blanchard]

Hey Mitch, great subject! Just so you know fellow FACer Peter Kateris has built and successfully flown a BF109Z of his own design. You should look into maybe getting a plan from him. It actually may have shown up in a recent FAC newsletter if i remember correctly. It is a proven flier and even if you do decide to go the Guillows route you can use his as an example of possible needed modifications. Good Luck!

Steve

[Phugoid]

A question for those that know more of aero history than me. Was this development an attempt to produce something like the DH mosquito?

Andrew

[Mitch]

Thanks Guys,

Yes I need to find that last newsletter...That is where I first found out about the "Z" I want to use Guillow parts for at least the Fuselage, as I like the scale size and look of the Guillow kits...I plan to make a new front end and my own spinners as they prototype is from the 109G...

Heck maybe I'll get some more Mustang parts and build the F-82 also.

I am worried it may not qualify for FAC as it NEVER flew. The prototype was destroyed in an air raid.

I believe it was being developed as a Heavy fighter to go against the P-38's and P-47's... Basically all I know about the project is what I found on the internet so far... If you guys find some more info pass it this way and give me some ideas for a color scheme... I am thinking KISS... Keep It Simple... Medium grey top over Light grey undersides...

I build other models besides Guillows, BUT will I will post the build of this prototype here as it will be Guillow parts and 1/16 scale!

Mitch... Now to order some stuff from Guillows, and Easy Built!

UPDATE: I just placed my order to Guillows... TOTAL is 60.00 plus shipping. That's enough Guillow parts for my Me-109Z AND the F-82!!! Mitch
UPDATE: I just sent in my order to Easybuiltmodels... NOTE: They have a Bf-109 24" and a P-51D 28" I bought those also and plan to see how those go together to help learn how to "lighten" my Guillow kits...

The 109Z and F-82 will be built with Guillow PARTS! Mitch

Found some more info:
Germany's legendary Messerschmitt Bf.109 fighter underwent numerous modifications in the course of its service, from the slightly angular early models which saw action in the Spanish Civil War, to the sleek late series, exemplified by the 109G.

Inevitably some served as test-beds for various proposals. The 109F, for example, was used to test the Jumo 213 engine and BMW 801 radial engine, producing a hybrid Bf.109 with the nose of an FW.190. A butterfly tail unit produced a Bf.109F/4V variant, which displayed better performance and flight characteristics than the standard model, but was not accepted by the authorities and therefore went nowhere. A Bf.109F-1 was rested with tricycle undercarriage for trials associated with the Me.262 jet.

Enlarge image (will open in a new window)The Bf.109Z represented one of the more interesting experiments with the 109 airframe. Two Bf.109F-1 fuselages were joined by a new common wing and tail centre section, removing the outer, original tail surfaces. The resulting aircraft was intended as a prototype for a heavy fighter-bomber in this new configuration, but using the components of the more modern Bf.109G.

In December 1942, four versions of the Bf.109Z were proposed, all accommodating the pilot in the port fuselage. The first was to be a heavy fighter and fighter-bomber powered by DB 605 engines, and armed with five 30 mm MK 108 cannon and 1,100 lb. bomb under the centre wing section.

This version would have a span of 43 ft. 6½ in. and a length of 29 ft. 3½ in., empty and loaded weights of 10,803 lb. and 13,669 lb., and a maximum speed of 441 mph at 23,300 ft.

The second version would be similar, but with two MK 108 cannon and two 2,200 lb. bombs. The third and fourth would be similar to the first two but powered by Jumo 213 engines.

Enlarge image (will open in a new window)A prototype based on 109F components was completed in the winter of 1942-43, by which time the jet-propelled Me.262 was attracting more interest as a fighter-bomber. The project was shelved before any flight testing was conducted.

The Bf.109TL was proposed in January, 1943 as an alternative to the Me.262. Emphasis was then placed upon simplification of combat aircraft production, and some reluctance was being evinced in committing to entirely new types such as the 262. The 109TL would make use of many existing aircraft components. It would use the fuselage of the Bf.109 or its derivative, the Me.155 (taken over by Blohm & Voss) which was being developed as a shipboard fighter.

That's about all I know...plus the article in the FAC newsletter (I need to find). I'm going back to ship soon... HOME in 12 DAYS! Mitch

[Steve Blanchard]

The F-82 not only qualifies for FAC Scale it has been used as a scale entry and won. Mark Fineman has a beautiful model of it that I believe is of his own design that he used to win at the Nats one year. FAC scale excepts prototype and designs that never flew.You cannot enter them in any events that required it to have flown in combat. Other than that, if you supply proper documentation you will be fine.

Steve

[Mitch]

Thanks Steve...

I plan to build the Me 109 Z first. Just got home and have 2 weeks before the next contest... Got my package from Guillows and the canopies are perfect. Also got some models from Easy Built as I need to build up my inventory of planes for different events.

Hope to bring at least 6 planes to Denver... Hopefully more! After I finish what's on the table now I will start on the Zwilling!

Mitch

[Mitch]

Found my old copies of FAC Club News... The Zwilling has been at 3 FAC contests so far... It's best flight time was 62 seconds! The model they show in the Club News has a 26.5" ws. I plan to build mine starting with 2 Guillow Fuselages and everything else hand built with contest grade lumber. My Guillow-Z should have a ws of approx. 35 inches!

The winner at the "Double Trouble" in Perris, CA last April was 38 seconds.

I will plan to be ready next APRIL! Contest in Denver is just more practice and learning for me... back to my building board... Mitch

[Steve Blanchard]

That sounds awesome Mitch! I can't wait to see how it turns out.

Steve

[Mitch]

Okay... With my new workshop out of the house I am ready to start construction on Zelda... My Bf 109-Z.
To recap... the Z was 2 F's, joined together to make a heavy destroyer. One prototype was completed during WW2, and a model can be flown in FAC rules.
To start I study pictures of an F model. Guillow's model is an E.

The biggest difference is the nose of the Airplane. So I will make a new frame B0 and extend the A parts. I will not be using the plastic cowling.

Also the prototype had no weapons so I will be filling in the gun troughs.

Since these are laser cut parts I just glued the part I wanted to save back in... There is no glue in the notch, so that should come out easy.

I also like to lightly sand all my parts, just enough to remove the marks on the wood. The model will be covered with colored tissue and I do not want to see these marks on my finished plane.

Now I need to extend the A parts to make my keels extend all the way to the nose of the plane, and build up the first half fuselage.

I will update at the end of the day! Mitch

UPDATE: Here is what I drew... I am asking you, my design team if that looks right. I extended the nose 1/2 inch to get what I think is the right contour. The bottom of A3 will be shaved off. The spinner will be larger... about 2 inch in diameter...

I will think about this tonight and work on other projects...I don't want to change B1 if I don't have too.
The intake can be added latter, I am just looking at the profile of the nose...
Thanks, Mitch

[davidchoate]

i saw a show on History channel titled Hitler's Generals, specifically about a man named "Udet".. On this episode they showed a demonstation reel of alot of one of a kind aircraft made to impress the fuhrer. dont know if you've seen it, but I remember some type of forked plan . it was very interesting. some of the prototypes of WW2 were very interesting. I cant wait to see your creation.

[Mitch]

Thanks David, I'll need to check that out... By the way my Herr Kit Fokker D7 will be in the colors of Udet's plane...

Here is what I came up with so far... Guillow front ends, although look nice, do not stand up well in the rigors of combat:


and my improvements in my P-51 were needed, but I lacked a device to hold things straight:

Magnets were NOT enough.

For my NEW front end, I will make it as on the NEW Edge 540"

It will all come to a round front end. I will make B0 out of balsa. P1 and P2 are to be plywood.


So, this disc will be cut in half and be B0. I will trim B1 down a bit on the bottom. I will cut the notches as they are needed as I did on the P-51...

I should be able to frame up the fuselage tonight after work... Mitch

[davidchoate]

that looks strong enough. are you using the adjusting screws again for thrust angles ? I think the built up nase looks more true to scale on a 109 cause they dont have a noticably separate cowl.it blends right into the fuselage. I think the underside (usually yellow) of the cowl where the scoop is comes off for sericing the upside down V engines.I cont wait to see this take shape. and I also remember on History ch.Herman Goering being very envious of the Mosquito, and ordering a German version to be made, but they just didnt have the right resources. I'm willing to bet at some point the Germans built and flew something very close to what your making.

[davidchoate]

pictures i found. they say it never flew, but who knows.

[Mitch]

This will have adjusting screws as did my Edge, also alignment pins. One of the improvements to the F model was to streamline the plane. The Z was developed to counter big planes the Americans had, P-38, P-47. One Z was built but was destroyed in an Air Raid before flight tests. The model is allowed to be flown in FAC rules! My flight tests will be early next spring!

Mitch... got to leave for work...Thanks for the pictures

[Mitch]

Before I built this up I removed a little balsa from the inside of B1 though B6, so a blast tube will fit! This plane is expected to fly in an FAC event and I will be going for maximum winds on the motor!
You can see in this photo how narrow the fuselage is and it only gets closer towards the rear. I was careful as I was removing balsa right where the side keel notch is! This photo is the stock piece before I removed the wood.

I think the Me 109 will be a good candidate for twin power as it is a small and slender plane!

Here is the work so far...

Lay down and build half frame as per plans, with extension of A1 and A3, and new frame B0. I will cut the notches in B0 as I need them.

A5 only goes as far as B1. I do not want all the joints at the same frame, so I will cut back A5 to end at B2



The cut is at an angle just like where A5 meets A6.



Lay in all the side keels and glue up. Last chance to make sure all frames are square.

Now that the side keel is in, I will insert B4, as now it has something to hold on to.

When dry I will remove from board and start completing this and start second fuselage. Mitch