Comet Kit Plans

[David Lewis]

I hope you're right because model building gets people excited about science, technology, history, math and engineering, and hungry for knowledge - not to mention develop ambition, patience, persistence and pride of accomplishment. From what I've observed, however, children whose families are stuck on the lower rungs generally don't get as excited about model airplanes as those who come from stable, upwardly mobile families headed by professionals or who have advanced degrees. I'm discussing broad statistical averages and not making value judgements whether you are rich or poor or educated or your parents are taking good care of you.

I've noticed this when I fly my planes at the park, from the demographic cross section of my mail order customers, the composition of model airplane clubs, spectator response at shopping mall model airplane exhibits and contests, model shows, and typical hobby shop patrons. I've found these experiences unexpected, disappointing, striking and astonishing, they may not be representative, and I welcome opposing viewpoints.

When sellers analyze markets, they try to make stereotyped generalizations that classify the majority of potential customers. If they hit target 80% of the time, they're doing stupendous. This form of profiling doesn't tell us anything about the other 20% -- much less a particular individual -- and doesn't categorize groups of people as good or bad. I barely graduated from high school, earn much less than median income, and shop at Walmart, yet I've been a hard core stick and tissue fanatic since first grade. Exceptions to the rule are usually not what marketers focus on when they want to maximize sales, and they can't afford to ignore the majority.

[kittyfritters]

...

When sellers analyze markets, they try to make stereotyped generalizations that classify the majority of potential customers. If they hit target 80% of the time, they're doing stupendous. This form of profiling doesn't tell us anything about the other 20% -- much less a particular individual -- and doesn't categorize groups of people as good or bad. I barely graduated from high school, earn much less than median income, and shop at Walmart, yet I've been a hard core stick and tissue fanatic since first grade. Exceptions to the rule are usually not what marketers focus on when they want to maximize sales, and they can't afford to ignore the majority.

David,

Point well taken. Believe me, I am aware of the marketing issues.

Howard

[Steve Blanchard]

You know what's ridiculous about this whole argument? The fact tat Walmart sells video games to the same poor people at 4 times the price of a small Guillow's kit. They do this every day. So it's not about disposable income or intelligence. You should see some of these video games that my honor student son plays. The fact that the hey day of model aircraft happened during the Golden age of aviation is not a coincidence. The battle to get more people interested is to become the new fad again. Why fight the battle? There are several ways to perpetuate the hobby that cost very little. Unfortunately for kit manufacturers the average modeler usually graduates to building from plans and then scratch building from their own plans depending on how far into this they want to get. Forget about Walmart. They are just there to make money and will only carry what they can sell a lot of. If I was a giant superstore I'd do the same thing. There is a monster market out there for kits and it's all done online.

[Bill Gaylord]

You know what's ridiculous about this whole argument? The fact tat Walmart sells video games to the same poor people at 4 times the price of a small Guillow's kit. They do this every day. So it's not about disposable income or intelligence. You should see some of these video games that my honor student son plays. The fact that the hey day of model aircraft happened during the Golden age of aviation is not a coincidence. The battle to get more people interested is to become the new fad again. Why fight the battle? There are several ways to perpetuate the hobby that cost very little. Unfortunately for kit manufacturers the average modeler usually graduates to building from plans and then scratch building from their own plans depending on how far into this they want to get. Forget about Walmart. They are just there to make money and will only carry what they can sell a lot of. If I was a giant superstore I'd do the same thing. There is a monster market out there for kits and it's all done online.

That's pretty much it. I inherited a few kits in recent times, which were originally bought at large department chain that was basically a WalMart type department store at the time the kits were sold there. That was 50 years ago however, and that chain closed in the early 80's. Today, WalMarts have about 5 plastic models, and that's it. You hit it dead on with kit building, as I went from kit building to scratch building, now primarily from my own plans. I only stick some kits in there now and then for a break.

For those who are into kit building, now seems to be a great time to buy from the online second hand market. I can buy a number of kits online for $30, that I could barely touch for $60 not too many years ago. I'm convinced that a large number of builders with large collections are sadly becoming no longer with us, and the kits make it to the resellers though estate sales and even family selling off the kits. While it's sad to see fellow modelers no longer with us, there is a steady supply of kits from vintage to modern showing up, and the prices seem to be dropping in a number of cases as the demand drops. I guess one good thing about fewer and fewer people taking up building, is that there is a good supply of kits turning up on the market for those of us who do build, and at lower prices. If the demand keeps dropping, then classical laws of supply and demand may eventually even set the Guillows Mosquito and B29 in the $30 price range. With all the scratch building I do, a die-cut is is almost the same as laser cut to me. Now that many die-cut Guillows are laser-cut, people no longer want the old kits and they are flooding the market. I think if I wait a few more years, I'll be able to buy the old Guillows die-cut kits at very low prices.

[shawn32671]

How did this thread get so wayyyy off track?

[Steve Blanchard]

Unfortunately there is an inherent need in the human psyche to answer to triggers. When someone asks about availability of Comet plans it is only natural for a person with knowledge of the fact that Guillows bought Comet. And then someone wishes they'd once again make the kits available. Then someone will want to give the reasons why they won't. Then someone naturally makes a comment about who buys and doesn't buy, and includes some generalizations that other people find either incorrect or offensive. The other people start to engage these comments and it all comes full circle eventually like right now.

Comet Kit Plans:
Comet was one of the best original Model airplane kit manufacturers for flying models bar none
They had their day(s) but went the way of many (going out of business) and were bought by Guillow's to be no longer
The plans are now available everywhere
The plans are Great flyers with very minor modifications (ie: increase the horizontal stab 10-15% and you're in business)
If you want a very good Comet kit, Penn Valley Hobbies supplies many in the Comet line as well as others such as Megow and Scientific etc. The wood in these kits is outstanding and they are by far the best way to get into making what is known as Dime Scale models (that's another discussion).
So, don't wait for Guillow's put the kits out there again they could never make money at it. They cannot compete with scratch builders and the quality kits from Penn Valley Hobby. Besides there are no issues with scanning and sharing the plans. Comet and Megow and all of those old kit manufacturers are like the Grateful Dead and Dave Matthews of the flying model world - trade 'em and enjoy!

[Bill Gaylord]

How did this thread get so wayyyy off track?

Editing your first post to completely change the purpose of the thread, is far above what anyone else could do to put a thread off-track. I already had your back with your complaint, but now wish I hadn't. I guess I'll just go and essentially delete that post also, once I find it. Thanks for making me look like an off-track poster.

As no posts have been deleted, except at the discretion of the moderator, a very brief review of them will quickly reveal that this is common. Unfortunately.

Not exactly David. Unfortunately, the first post has been essentially deleted by a serious edit, which radically changes the entire thread. Unfortunately, someone would still call those taking a thread off-topic unfortunate, when the topic no longer exists to be taken off-topic in the first place. Learn from my experience, and be careful with who you back up also.

Sorry but I will no longer be offering these plans as I've had issues with a few members over it.

You know this hasn't gained me fame, but I would call those people out who offended you behind the scenes, before offering something to everybody and then retracting it. Neither one is a great solution, but the latter only reflects on one person.

[Bill Gaylord]

You're reading me wrong. I deliberately said " no posts" and " review of them". I'm speaking of ALL posts on ALL threads on this forum. I didn't realize this thread had been edited but I will agree that editing an original post is not a good idea for the reasons you said.

I'm not covering anyone's back at the moment.

I sort of figured that after thinking about it a bit. Makes a good point for why I told him he'd be better off calling the people out directly, than making an anonymous reference. On second thought, maybe his off-topic comment wasn't directed at me either, but without being specific, it sure looks like it when posting the comment after my post.

I would have figured after the "I'm Done" thread, that the first post wouldn't have both been edited here, and then be followed an off-topic comment being made about people's posts. I can fully understand that you didn't realize the thread had been edited.

[shawn32671]

First, my comment about this thread going off topic wasn't directed at anyone specific, even if it was posted after Bills. Second, my sincere apologies for radically editing my original posting here about the free plans and essentially ruining the thread all together.I never meant to anger anyone. as for my saying I was done here and then deciding to stay after all..well maybe I should split so as to not anger anyone else.

[Steve Blanchard]

If you really wanted to leave, would keep threatening to do so? I find that when people say they are going to leave they are hoping everyone will say "Oh no! Don't go!" I don't want anyone to leave but it gets old hearing it. I'm sure plenty of people have stopped posting for a while or permanently without an exit exclamation. It's just a hobby! It's just a bunch people online talking! Don't be all bunched up about this crap and you won't get so butt hurt all the time. No one really cares once they walk away from their computer. By the way, this is exactly what I'd say to my son when he was about twelve and he thought the Little League coach had it out for him. So know that I'm not attacking you just trying to advise.

[shawn32671]

where did I keep "threatening" to leave, I was just making a comment that maybe should have stayed away or whatever. Talk about my offending some. Also I'm surely not looking for a way of trying to get people to beg me to stay. Maybe your childs coach really did have it out for him, it happens. I'm not getting all bunched up about anything, I'm just trying to get along.

[Steve Blanchard]

I'm getting dizzy jumping from one thread to the other with the same subject. Calm down and really read what people are saying to you. I'm not offended. I don't care if you go or stay. I just think you are putting too much stock in the comments. Didn't you and you buddies ever break each others balls when you were growing up? This is fun for me. So you aren't wrecking my day you are just adding to it. I like conversing with others and I hope I say something you can use and if not then oh well. Writing with a smile on my face (I hate those stupid smileys - very fake).

[shawn32671]

I added this threads original intent back to my original post though it probably won't matter anyway. Makes me kind of wonder though if maybe I've dug myself enough of a hole already to where a lot may not even respond to any threads I post about needing help, suggestions, or care about any project updates etc. not being paranoid or anything and know others don't have it out for me but sure know that when someone is not liked, they are often ignored which is ok, it's just the internet anyway and this is just one forum option for this hobby but it's the forum I choose to be at.

[shawn32671]

ok letting it go

[Bill Gaylord]

I took the risk of stirring the pot when I defended you, as the person/s I indirectly referred to know who he/they are, and it could have started problems for me for mentioning my similar situation. It's interesting how letting things go generally means on that person's terms and with them getting the last word with everything explained according to them.

I'm getting dizzy jumping from one thread to the other with the same subject....

LOL Steve, I'll have to remember that line.

First, my comment about this thread going off topic wasn't directed at anyone specific, even if it was posted after Bills.

I'm trying to process how it couldn't be directed at anyone, and also how responding right after someone's post is not supposed to be taken in any way as having some kind of connection to the previous post.
The best I can come up with, is maybe that "on topic" was supposed to be a bunch of continuous praises and thank yous, in an auto-reply format like the little bobbing bird that Homer Simpson tried to use to continuously hit "yes" on his computer keyboard, when he had the "work at home nuclear plant job".