Lesson by Mitch: 1. Braiding Rubber Motors

[Mitch]

Hi Guys,

I still do not consider myself an expert, but I realize (and hope) there are newcomers here. I have been learning quite a bit in the last year and thought I would pass to you what I have learned.

Braiding Rubber Motors - Although I have achieved a few brief flights in my Local Schoolyard with standard Guillow Rubber Motors. I have learned for longer and better flights one must use tan rubber, at greater lengths and loops. The common sizes I have found are 1/8 and 3/16. I would use 1/8 for 500 series type models, and 3/16 for 400 series.
Lets get to the braiding. First choose your rubber motor size. You can determine how much by length or weight. I am still going by length.

1. Here I am starting with 60 inches of 3/16 rubber. I plan to make 2 loops. Tie a knot at the ends. Wet the rubber (in your mouth) and tie 1 overhand knot. Then tie another overhand knot over that and slide it down to the end. If there is a lot of loose ends left, trim them off.


2. You will need some small rubber bands. Dental Bands work very well. Fold the rubber to make the loops you want and secure the end that goes to the peg with the dental band.


3. Slip this secured opening over a post of some sort, in your workshop:


4. Take one loop and wind it backwards until it has a nice curl to it but no knots.


5. Set that aside (I hung it on the banister) and do the same with the other loop.


6. Now put them together and wind them forward:


7. Voila!: (that's about all the French I know) it means "There it is!"


8. I like to use a crocket hook on the front end. I have 2 different sizes:


9. Secure the crocket hook with another dental band to the front end:


10.Don't forget to lube you motor before you use it. I am now using Dow Corning 33, it is a paste:


So there you have it. That's how the PRO's do it and now you can to!

Mitch

[davidchoate]

thanks Mitch. I have never found ff very exciting i think because of the poor performance of the rubber motors.i.e. short underpowered flights. a while back i read your post about your me109 and i think you said a 3min. flight time, and i became curious how you achieved that. i have seen that on rubber planes before, but they were designed for it. thanks for showing us how to get a Guillows kit to do this. it would have taken me forever to to find out how. one ting; are you attaching your motors to the dowel pin in the fuse by loopoing it over, or with the hook attachment? i have tht same lube dow corning lube at work, but it says O-Ring lubricant on the tube. i use for installing fuel injectors. i plan on doing an f;light of my 500 109 rubber model soon. i am fixing it up while im waiting for drying time on my Edge project. i'm getting more excited about it now that i see theres alot more involved than just winding a rubber band and throwing it to the wind.

[Mitch]

David, you are mixing up 2 different stories. My Guillow's Me 109 flew for 38 seconds. That was my best flight ever, and was good enough for 3rd place in a Mass Launch. When I spoke of a flight over 3 minutes I was referring to an endurance model, I was timing for someone else.

Typically, at an FAC contest, I see Twin engine models fly for about 30 seconds, WW1 models fly for up to 1 minute, WW2 models fly for up to 2 minutes, Endurance models fly even longer. There are many different categories in FAC flying. They also have ROG (Rise off Ground) events.

I am still very new to the world of competition flying, but was told Guillow models do not win contests (They are too heavy) Me 109's do not win contests (There ws is to small). I am very happy with my Guillow Me 109, and proudly display my 3rd place plaque in my hobby room!

I do not use the wood dowels that come with the kit I use aluminum tube of the same diameter. I have this extend out past the fuselage enough to use medium fuel line to secure the "peg" so it does not slip. The reason for the tube is that you will place your model in a stooge and secure that rear peg with a pin.

I realize not everyone has Don Ross' book and that is why I like to share my enthusiasm with you here!


My Edge 540 in the repair shop, with various "peg" parts. You can cut the tube by scribing it with a knife!


Front end getting adjustment


Inside view of rubber hooked on "peg"


My Guillow Mustang in stooge, being prepared for flight in Denver.


My Guillow Me 109 flew 38 seconds to 3rd place for Mediterranean Theater WW2 in Perris, CA.

Note: Both of those 400 series kits were modifdied from the plans to be able to compete in FAC competition!
My new Edge 540 is built with all the kit wood, I only made a few changes as per the "G" challange. Mitch

[davidchoate]

it makes sense scale models wouldt fly so long. im gonna experiment with my 500 109 anyway, but it was very windy all weekend, and now its raining. but one good thing is i can go right to the soccer field at the end of my block and try it. i want to try a plane designed for it. like the javelin, lancer designs. i will admit to looking at other sites like stick and tissue, and i see some models other than Guillows are noticeably lighter, but lack the scale details of Guillows. if i seriously attempt at rubber flight i am considering one of the non scale Guillows kits. form follows function i guess.

[Steve Blanchard]

David and Mitch,

Free flight scale models can fly for much longer than stated. My best flight (with recovery of the model) to date is 8 minutes with a Laird LC/DC Biplane racer. I have lost a few planes to thermals in flights well over 10 minutes before they specked out (literally disappeared like a balloon). Mitch is under stating what these models can do especially within the FAC contests. The unfortunate thing about being here on the Guillow's forum is that these really are not well designed for long flying scale models. This has been discussed at length and if you want to see more as far as models that fly for greater duration then you need to look elsewhere. A good friend of mine lost his giant scale Beardmore Inflexible rubber model after tracking it for 45 minutes (that is not a typo 45 minutes) at one of the FAC nats of years past. It is important in this hobby not to be locked into any one forum for all of your information. Do yourself a great favor and start to look beyond this one to see what is really out there. You may enjoy the hobby even more.

Steve

[Mitch]

Thanks Steve,

As I said my experience is limited thus far. Also I see a lot of models that have DT's (De-Thermilizers) they have a timer or fuse and after 2 minutes the tail pops up and the plane descends safely. I was lucky to get 3rd place in Perris, CA, as a top competitor lost his airplane as he chased it for 7 minutes until it went out of sight. He did not set his DT. He did not get to the start line for round two. Any plane that gets up to 50 feet can catch a thermal and fly away. For now I do not add DT's as my models are fairly heavy and I do not want to add more work and more weight!

I like this forum because I still build a lot of Guillow models and I like to help new comers. As my friend Don DeLoach said, building from a kit is just an invite to the party. There is a lot more to learn with experience, and the enjoyment increases in my opinion.

Mitch

[Steve Blanchard]

Hey Mitch,

I was really talking to David. You have been very involved and doing great things so I wouldn't begin to advise your next move. You are doing a great job on your own. The only thing that really got me from David's post was him saying that free flight wasn't very exciting. I feel it is the most exciting and challenging part of model aviation. All of the other forms have their merits for sure but what could be more exciting than not really knowing what will happen once you let go of your model. You're in the final round of a mass launch that has been 10 rounds long. The guy you are flying against has a proven winner and you feel like you were just getting lucky the whole way (we all feel that way, even the proven winner). You both launch. Two beautifully built and trimmed models soar up into the atmosphere, circling around higher and higher. After a minute or maybe even two they start to come down. It looks like it will be a photo finish. You look like you are going to touch down first but suddenly just a few feet from the ground the other plane inexplicably stalls giving you that extra second and you WIN! Everybody is cheering, including the guy that just lost by a second. What could be more exciting than that? Please don't say an RC stunt plane hanging unrealistically on its prop for 20 seconds over and over again. That may do it for some but not for me. Free flight IS exciting! Very much so.

Steve

[Mitch]

Thanks again... and I agree this is REALLY FUN... For me now I am not sure what will happen...


On this launch my plane was shaking and flying straight at the CD... I had to yell "INCOMING" and he stepped aside to avoid my plane. I was out in the first round. In the last round was Don D. and Herb K. both VERY good flyers... They both kept winding and winding because they both know this was the KANNONE round! When they both released both there planes were flying around in a tight left circle (because of the torque) We are not allowed to adjust the model between rounds. I forgot who won but it looked like these two warbirds were in a dogfight for there lives!

Although I did not win any event, everyone complimented me on my Guillow Red Tail Mustang! Mitch

[davidchoate]

Mitch, I think your Me 109 looks incredible. is that colored tissue or silkspan, or paint? it looks very light, but uniform, and no wrinkles. i've seen alot of your models, but thats my favorite. i think im gonna take the old covering off my old 500 series 109, and refinish it before i try my rubber flight test. its supposed to rain all weekend and im waiting for things i ordered to come for my current Edge build. i have plenty of leftover tissue and silk from other builds to use. so its just good free fun. and i have the blue and tan motors. i was trying to get the motor on the dowel last night and it was a pain. i ended up using a piece of mechanic wire to fish it through, but theres gotta be a better way. any ideas. ? thanks P.S. is the book on rubber flight you told us about the same one as in the Guillows booklet/ catalog?

[Mitch]

David,

Thanks, the Me 109 is IMO my best 400 series build to date. Thanks again for the compliment on the covering. I got compliments at Perris, CA also. It is covered in 2 coats of thinned dope. I copied the decals and what you see is copies of Guillow decals on paper, the squadron mark was copied from my reference book. One more coat of dope over the markings. I find that the model needs several coats of dope for the water slide decals to adhere and they still may flake off after some time. Printed marks also blend better and do not have that shine as decals do. The picture you see there is in Perris, CA. It is covered in domestic colored tissue. I get my tissue from EasyBuilt. They have a website. That is where I also got my metal building board and magnets and other supplies.

There are 3 ways to mount a motor:

1. Spend several minutes as you did pushing the motor down and try to catch the loop with the peg.
2. Have an access hole in the bottom of the model. Secure the rubber to the peg. Then with a long piece of music wire with a hook, pull the motor to the front. But you have an unsightly hole in the bottom of the plane.
3. Have a push stick. You can buy or make a push stick. Don Ross shows you in the book. This is what I use now.

I went though 1,2,3, and now prefer Number 3!

Yes, Don Ross' book is listed in the Guillow catalog.

Mitch

[zoomie]

Mitch,

Very nice braiding tutorial, thanks for posting it .

Question about the rubber dental bands...if I recall correctly, they come in different sizes (diameter).

Not sure what size of bands you're using, but most of the small stuff I fly uses 2 strand (single loop) 3/32" to 1/8" motors, usually less than 20" long.

Wondering if I need to use a smaller band .

Thanks,


zoomie

[Mitch]

Zoomie,

I am glad you enjoyed the tutorial. Although I have built and flown Guillow models as per plan, they only fly for about 10 seconds (In my experience) You will discover building a kit, as challenging as that may seem is "Just the Invite to the Party" There is a lot more you can learn and do to make these models fly better!

About the bands... I bought an "Assortment pack" from a vendor at my first FAC meet. I have not been paying too much attention to the size. But now you made me look. They are graded 2 ways, size and thickness. I would say a pack of "D" 5/16 - Medium should be okay for small models. I have C-D-E in Light, Medium, Heavy and Extra Heavy. I got 12 packs for about 12 dollars. There are 100 in a pack... so they are a penny each. It's just the trouble to find them...

Mitch

[zoomie]

Thanks Mitch, that's very useful info re the dental bands. May have to start with an assortment pack to find my favorite size .

As for availability, I read somewhere that most pharmacies have them. Probably CVS, Walgreen's, maybe Walmart Pharmacy. They might not be on the shelf though, could be a behind-the-counter item so you might have to ask for them.


zoomie

[Mitch]

Went back to call up this old posting for "Hunterdude" et al. Mitch

[hunterdude]

I see it! ...Thanks Mitch, exactly the info I was looking for.