Guillow vs. Dumas

[Coloradoken]

I usually build Guillows laser cut kits and have been very happy with the results. Was recently given a Dumas laser cut kit for a P 38 Lightning and was wondering if anyone out there has ever built a Dumas kit. It looks similar to the Guillows but am interested in anyones experiences of one versus the other.

[davidchoate]

Dumas kits are for more experienced builders I say. The Plans are not as easy to under stand, but they are much lighter. Their design is similar to the Guillows Fairchild.. No B formers. And very little plastic.

[WIDDOG]

Dumas kits come with a plastic Guillow s propeller.

[cliffm]

Guillows have a heavier structure and plenty of materials in the kit to make up for "mistakes" as Dumas is built much lighter and requires a more experienced touch in assembly. Dumas kits have very little overage in materials and are also sparce on instructions compared to the step by step tutilage offered by Guillows. Also Guillows seem to be more to scale than other comparable kits requiring the "extra" formers, longerons,etc. I find Guillow's a much more enjoyable build than any other kits I have encountered. Most of my experience is with the larger kits,so the smaller kits may be be different, but from what I've heard I don't think so. The only way to satisfy your curiosity is to simply try one and find out first hand. Wow this is way to long of an answer!!

[Mitch]

As said here before... with Dumas you will have NO overage in strip stock so be careful when you start using it. The reason for this is that this is all contest wood and is more expensive. Dumas builds to a ws size not a scale size. Guillows is unique in that the 400 and 1000 series and P-38 are all 1/16 scale.

Also... Dumas makes a 30 inch ws Hurricane, and since that plane had a 40 foot ws, 30 inches comes out to 1/16 scale so that will fit in with Guillows for scale.

Built to the plans, Dumas will have longer flights than Guillows as they are designed only for Rubber Power.

Mitch

PS: Do you plan to fly your P-38? I have the Guillows in progress and am almost finished. I hope it will fly with 2 rubber motors.

[Coloradoken]

Thanks for the feedback. I will build for static display only. My fun is in the building not the flying. Tried a "EasytBuilt" and had a heck of a time with the plans and the materials. Crashed on first flight. Guess I'm spoiled with Guillows.

[backyardbalsapilot]

Coloradoken,

Which easybuilt kit did you try? I presume you mean the small model company in AL.

I find that EBM kits have a great potential for flying, you just have to be careful. The plans can be a little ambiguous, especially in relation to the cowling.

On the bright side, it's really easy to make a removable nose block.

How bad is the crash damage? I built an EBM hellcat that crashed on one of its first flights. The port wing ripped almost completely free of the fuselage. It was held on by just tissue paper. Oh well.

[ekram]

I don't know if this is still the case, but I noticed that Dumas kits don't have the spinners for their models. So, you have to design your own. Also, when dumas was new, their kit wood was very high density in spite of being laser cut. Maybe that has changed. And many of their walnut scale models had loads of plastic to weigh down the model. Not a good combination of characteristics for good flying models. Guillows aside, if you have to decide between Dumas and Herr, I would go with Herr.

[Coloradoken]

Yes, it is the site in Alabama. I tried the Baby Hornet. Attached is a pix of the "pug nose" beauty. I glided it perfectly but under power it augered in the ground. Hung it in the garage and started a new model from Guillows, Spirit of St. Louis.

BabyHornet.jpg

[attac

[Steve Blanchard]

I think the main thing to remember about all of the kit manufacturers is that most times crash damage is less about the design or the kit but more user error. I have been building and flying rubber powered competitively for the better part of 14 years. I have built and flown models from several manufacturers as well as mostly scratch built from published plans and plans of my own. While there are definitely quality differences between kit manufacturers and designs, even the worst kits of the worst designs can survive flight trimming in skilled hands. That is not to say that a skilled hand has not dorked in a new plane on the first flight leaving it near impossible to salvage.
So, what it comes down to is that everybody has their favorites. Guillows is not well liked among competitive flyers for their weight, too thick airfoils, bad wood, over built designs. Many of these things are getting better with the Guillows designs though through laser cutting, better wood and new designs. Easy Built makes several great kits that are great flyers as well as Herr, Peck Polymers, Comet, Megow, Golden Age Reproductions, etc. Of course Comet and Megow are only being reproduced as both companies have not been in business in quite a while. As time goes on we all learn to get the most out of the models we build and in most cases none of us just build them straight from the plan or the kit. We adjust to our preferences. Look at Mitch. He started out with Guillows straight from the kits and as much as he enjoys Guillows kits he now pretty much does them his way now and has been more and more successful.
Moral of the story - Don't limit yourself to just designs made by one kit manufacturer or another. There are lot of great designs and planes to be built. Take your time and get as much advice on flight trimming as possible and you'll enjoy this hobby a lot more.


Thanks for letting me weigh in on this.

Steve

[scigs30]

Dumas has some good kits that are fun to build. Like Guillows their kits are no designed to win contests but they will fly and look good. Most of my builds, Sterling, Comet, Guillows and Dumas are built out of the box with very few mods. Sure I can make many changes for a better flyer but at that point building is no longer fun for me. I won the clubs WWII and WWI contest flying my out of the box 500 series Hellcat and 200 series SE5, go figure. From the few Dumas kits I have built I would say they fly better than Guillows. Dumas puts out a covering DVD that is pretty good definitely worth watching.

[Steve Blanchard]

Scigs, I think it's great that you build straight out of the box. Someone at your skill level building like that really shows what can be done with a design and kit as supplied. It helps everyone decide based on their goals if the kit is worth the effort and time to build. I too have done well with a couple of Guillows out of the box at local FAC contests along with others who have done the same. All of the kit manufacturers have their strong points and not so strong points. Their good designs and not so good designs. It's all what you want to get out of it.

Steve

[Mitch]

For static display, I think Guillow's are the best. I have other FAC friends who agree even Dumas models may not be not contest winners. I have 3 new Herr kits, for FAC contest, but need to finish my skeletons and trim the fleet I have. I still need to learn to make them fly. I want to have fun as you do also...
...build what you want and enjoy. Mitch

[WIDDOG]

I like both companies kits. I do like that the Dumas kits are designed sololy for rubber power. Where as Guillows still makes Muli Purpose kits. However I think Guillows has a better selection. Also Guillows has the 600, 700 and 900 series kits.

[ekram]

Sure I can make many changes for a better flyer but at that point building is no longer fun for me.

You can make a lot of models better flyers ( or longer flyers) with more duration without much fuss. A simple hole punch will go a long way to eliminating excess weight in ribs, formers and keels. This is especially helpful on model kits that used high density balsa like the old Sterling kits.