400 Series Spitfire RC Conversion....

[dashmatrix]

Ooh what have I gotten myself into ? So I checked out as many of the bid logs on the Spit as I could handle... Learned a ton. Many of them seem a tad dated and I'm hoping some things have changed. I have taken the recommended airfoil modifications into account, and right now I'm looking at a fuselage. I'm in the drive and control planning phase and hope maybe someone has some updated advise.
I have been looking at the newer Spectrum AR64XX series receivers and linear servos. They seem like a good fit for a 400 series conversion space and weight wise. The questions I've got right now are this :
• The will the linear servos work ? I'm going with dual ailerons with sullivan golden wire cables in the wing. Planning on recessing the linear inside the wing root near CG and running the cabling inside the wing. Sanity check ?
• Will the AS3X stuff be of any use or should I opt for a receiver sans the stability control ?
• There is a version with a 5A BEC built in. 5A seems a bit weak but if I end up using the entire system I ought to be able to shave off a good bit of girth. You reckon it'll be enough to get away with a 5A motor ?

Notes : no retracts, planning to use the removable gear method one of the build on here used. Planning a Aileron Rudder Elevator with Brushless setup. AS3X is on the chopping block but under consideration.

[davidchoate]

Most of the Build Threads on RC Groups I have found good. But I gotta really search them though because of the amount of activity there. Bill Gaylord (currently Cub 303 Thread) and Myself are the only two on here a lot who RC these Guillows things, but HE Has more experience on Me, but I know enough to help You I think. I am doing a $00 series Fw190 Right now. Check out My thread when You want. I can say that the linear servos are not strong enough to move the ailerons with cable, and they're too light anyway. The fighters tend to be tail heavy. Sometimes it is necessary to mount the servos on each side of the motor on the radial engine Models ( Zero404),If You post photos, and I can see what You got I might be able to help, or at least tell You what I know.It took Me 5 yrs of converting to RC, and I just achieved My 1st sucess. Maybe. I have not Maidened it, but I know it's set right.You do not really need super hyper sub micro stuff for Your 400 series Spitfire. Are You a good Pilkot? I will not even be able to fly mine as I am just getting confident in a trainer, b ut anyway, If You know how to set up the ASA3X reciever to the plane thats fine. I have an AR600 Rx, and can not program it until I get a new computer. I'm workin with Windows VISTA here. But I like the ORANGE Rx. and 6g-9g sevos. a 5AMP ESC will more than likely be not enough for the motor prop setup You will need. I have to go to work now, but post some pics and specs( weight etc.) And I will try and help. I'll check later to see if You did.

[dirk gently]

Is it a 5A ESC or an ESC with a 5A BEC? It's a significant difference. The former will not be enough, the latter will be much too big.

[Bill Gaylord]

This model has the largest wing area of the series, with approximately 1 sq-ft of area. I built it years ago with a brushed geared 370 setup, weighing close to 15oz if I remember correctly, with added ballast to boot. Done again, it would not have sheet tail feathers and would have lighter fuse sheeting/iron-on covering, but it seemed to fly easily as light as the 190, P51, and Zero, all being a good bit lighter, but with less wing area.

Gear depends on how it's built, but it's too heavy for UM gear. More reasonable would be a 300 class outrunner with 10A ESC and servos in the 3-5gm range. I wouldn't try a 250 class outrunner, unless I really planned on a target weight of something like 8oz. Again, this model has no problem handling a bit of weight. With the low cost of light weight servos such as 3-5gms, it's easier to just use individual aileron servo, versus cable, unless you're really trying to shave weight. In that case, .015-.025" music wire is lighter than cable. When servos that size were $15 and higher, it was more tempting to use a wire or cable setup, with a single aileron servo.

As for AS3X, there's really no need for it on a model this size, or any size for that matter. Models have to be built and trimmed to fly well. This model is a good example of that. When I first built it, I thought I could fly it with RET controls. The torque rod ailerons were added later. Thanks to tall weeds, there was no damage. The model probably did 5 instantaneous rolls within 50 feet, after launch. AS3X would not have helped. A year later I got back to the model. The two main adjustments were first adding washout, as it actually had washin. Fortunately the flat Monokote nearly requires a blow torch to reshrink, but the good thing is that it will hold the setting afterward. The second was adding a significant amount of right thrust, especially needed with a larger scale 9" 3-blade prop, which Spitfires seem to call for a good dose in general. The second launch required no trim, and the model flew off perfectly for a good distance, before requiring any control input.

[davidchoate]

Here is a couple pics of what Bill meant By leaving sheeting off the tail. I left The sides open, and It will balance good with the 370 geared. I thought I was going to have to put the servos way forward, but ended up right over the CG with them, and the battery behind firewall. I slightly enlarged a Spitfire Plan and want to try retracts.

[woundedbear]

I love the way the wing of the Guillows 400 series Spitfire looks, but I wish there were an option to build it as one of the later marks. Most people say that the spit was the most beautiful of the Warbirds. To my eye the later Spitfires with the longer noses,"like the Mk. IX", were better looking airplanes. The Spitfire Mk. IXs with the longer noses, four blade props, symmetrical underwing twin radiators and oil coolers, well they just look so much better to my eye. I would like to see an optional parts set for building a Mk.IX included on the current kits plan sheet. Guillows could offer these extra parts as add ons, the way they offer the optional floats for the 300 series De Havilland Beaver kit, and the same for the current P-51 D, extra parts for building it as a P-51 B! Just a thought, no harm intended. Hope nobody on the forum was offended by my suggestions. As for this Electric RC conversion of a 400 series Spitfire, I will be following this with great interest, and I wish you the best you luck with your efforts. I can't be of much help, but Tower hobbies is discontinuing, or flyzone is discontinuing the entire Aircore line of foamies. The reason I am mentioning this is because you can get the push rod set "part # FLZA6427" these make good pre made pushrod sets for Guillows 400 series conversions. This universal push rod set includes a set of dual pivots for using a single servo to move both ailerons, I think it's called a strip aileron linkage control. Anyways, it makes for a real light setup for aileron control and the FLZA6427 set is going for around 8 dollars for the whole set, at Tower Hobbies, and on ebay. I've ordered two sets for the 400 series conversions I have in the works.

[dashmatrix]

Good advice so far thanks. I've got my servos on the way and a standard Spectrum receiver. From what you guys are saying I might be worried about nothing on the weight huh ? Motor-wise I'm still not sure of the best solution. I'm leaning on the E-flite Park 300 brushless 1380kv with a 10a ESC. Sound ok ?

[Bill Gaylord]

The Eflite power system that you mentioned sounds fine. I quit using their stuff for the most part some time ago, as a number of other brands seem to be easily as good if not better in quality and performance, and cost a good bit less. Their motors are fine, but their ESCs are a bit pricey given their performance, especially in the lower amperage ratings. You just got me thinking about my favorite 12A ESC, which is now only a few bucks, with a 2A switching BEC. http://www.hobbypartz.com/60p-dye-1014-12a-esc.html
I wonder how long this place will be in business, but I should buy a few more at that price. For models like the Guillows FW190 when adding retracts and running 5 servos, the 2A switching BEC is essential.

[dashmatrix]

Bill.... holy cow. You saved me a boat load of money. All this time I have been dealing with Horizon and Tower.... I had not idea you could get good electronics so cheap. I literally saved over 130$ on this setup alone. I even managed to get quite a bit of extra supplies for my next project Went with the Suppo 1430KV and matching ESC, and I'm hoping that will pull her. One of these nights when I get it looking decent maybe I'll throw up some photos.
Anybody ever build a 400 Spit with flaps ? I saw them marked on the plans... If I rigged the ailerons for a single servo I could use the other servo for flaps. Could make landings a bit less chaotic. I am struggling with the modified airfoil.

[Bill Gaylord]

I wouldn't bother with flaps, unless you're really trying to scale it out, like adding retracts. This model would be a real floater at around 10oz or less, which it should easily be unless sheeted or using heavy covering. The wing construction, particularly the LE, is a bit different. I found a few degrees of washout worked well in flight, like the full scale Spitfires. Still not as difficult as the B25 Guillows wing I'm just finishing. That wing was almost enough to talk me out of building the model for a second time.

[David Lewis]

Flaps will not make the landing easier. All they do (at this scale) is add drag and kill lift.

[dashmatrix]

So far so good.
Good learning experience. Certainly not the best construction job on the site but not bad for my first 400 series I guess. Need a lot of sanding.

[dashmatrix]

And before you say anything... I sheeted the tail before I read your advise

[davidchoate]

Thanx For that ESC link Bill. I knew I was going to need that on My Spitfire that I plan to do as My first Plane with retracts. I have been using the 6a Emax linear ESC from hurc on small stuff. I find it performs better than any others I have used. Including Castle.

[dashmatrix]

Bill et. al. ,
Any sage advise for geometry of the motor mount ? Thrust angle ?