Newbee

[ranarc]

Greetings to All,

New to the forum and aero modeling. I live in Bangalore, India. Absolutely beginner. I know the basics of aircraft dynamics and can read engineering drawings.
A few weeks ago, I managed to lay my hands on a Guillow 504 Spitefire kit. All so keen to get going, I made a bad start. While cutting a notch in a former (the very first one) I split it real bad:-( Could not find a way to fix it. I wasn't ready to give up, I hunted the Internet and found this forum. I think I read every post:-) This place is a goldmine. Thanks to all for the fantastic information.
What did I do wrong? Basic, didn't have the right tools, none of them. Tried to cut with one of the retractable blades. Hobby shops like the ones I see described in this forum don't exist in India. Lots of ARF or RTF RC models in the toys shops. No tools or supplies:-(
So gather information from this forum and Virtual Aerodrome on what was needed and hunted down the tools. Even found a source for balsa and bought some:-) The glues still have me foxed. None of the brands mentioned are available here, I am going to work this out by experimenting. Yet to locate a source for dope and tissue.
Right now I have managed to cut out the damaged former from scratch. Can't spend more than 30-45 minutes a day working on this, so it's going to be slow.

The question I have ... The kit wood seems harder and heavier compared to what I bought, so is it OK to mix the kit wood with the wood I bought?

Oh yes, one more, anyone from India on the forum?

[supercruiser]

Welcome to the forum!
Always a treat for me when people from other parts of the world join and talk about airplane models.
Mixing the balsa wood is not a problem. If you are planning on flying your model, use more of the lighter grade that you have.

Breaking formers while cutting notches happens fairly often. Cutting the notches with an X-acto knife like some of the instructions show is o.k.
Now I use a homemade sanding stick. What it is: a piece of 1/16th inch stringer stock about 2 inches long with a 1/16th inch wide piece of sandpaper glued to one side of the balsa stick. To make a notch, just lay the sandpaper side of the stick against the former and start "sawing" back and forth. Soon , you will sand a notch the same depth as your stick. Of course, you can do this with any size balsa you need.

Glues: I'm sort of surprised that you cannot find Elmer's white glue. I thought that stuff was everywhere. Almost any kind of glue that is made
for paper or wood products will be o.k. You can make your own Elmer's glue. I don't remember exactly how but, it's standard household items like
flour and such.

[thymekiller]

supercruiser's post is a good one. Good advice.
I always break something, somewhere. You can simply glue it back together, or, replace it. Some guys replace ALL of the wood with lighter stuff.
Any wood glue will work. Some glues are better than others, but any wood glue will work.
The thing is, lighter is better, if you plan to fly the model. With glue, just a small spot will do it. Try not to over glue it. Wood glue is heavy.
Its ok if it takes alot of time to build. Some planes have taken a year to build. Take however much time you need to, to get it as straight and true as you can. That is more important than building fast.
Is it difficult to get things shipped to India? I have MANY sources for supplies and will share them all, if it will help.
thymekiller

[dbcisco]

Crazy Glue or any of the CA glues work for me. Gotta be quick though. Also, wear a face mask when working with CA glue. They can cause sinus inflammation and headaches (been there, done that).

[BillParker]

Elmer's Glue

1 quart skim milk
3/4 tablespoon baking soda
1 tablespoon white vinegar
10 ounces water

Place milk and vinegar in a double boiler. Cook on low heat and stir as curds form. Drain off liquid. Wash remaining mass with water until the vinegar smell is gone. Put into a clean bowl. Dissolve baking soda in water. Pour over curds and stir until a white paste forms. Seal in suitable containers.


you could make this stuff up by the metric ton!

bp

[John G. Jedinak]

Elmers white glue is the way to go for most ALL of your modeling needs. CA gives many of us sinus infections....watch out for it. Plain ole white glue will do the job. Use small amounts and it will dry relatively fast. Luck JGJ

[ranarc]

Thank you folks, for the warm welcome!
I am building to fly. My current plan is to build two of the Spits, one from scratch. Get my cutting/carving skills honed up:-)

supercruiser: the sanding is a great idea. Will try this today.

thymekiller: Shipping to India is not a big problem. I have got tennis gear shipped from the US. The downside is the shipping costs. My first attempt will be to find the material or a substitute here. Please do let me know about sources.

BillParker: Thanks for the glue making process. This will be last resort:-)

I made some progress with the glues. The brand that is easily available in India is called Fevicol, manufactured by Pidilite Industries. They make many types of glues. I bought the smallest tubes of different types of white glue. Experimented using the scrap wood from the kit .. one takes a while to dry, dries white and is rubbery, doesn't sand well, so ruled that out. Two other glues dry quicker and clear, both sand well, the joints seem strong, will use one of these. I also tried a instant adhesive Fevikwik, this is a thin liquid, dries real quick, difficult to control the amount of glue and makes the wood hard at the joint. I had to peel it off my fingers. Guessing this one is closer to balsa cement.

Most of the cutting / carving is done, just the notches left. With supercruiser's tip I feel a lot more confident about these now. I should be putting it together soon. I made copies of the plan and laminated the original. Haven't managed to find wax paper. ffscale.co.uk suggested using cling wrap, so I will use that.

I noticed another difference with the woods. The kit wood sands clean and smooth. However, even with the smoothest sandpaper, the scratch wood has real fine hairs sticking out. Is this good or bad? Will this get sorted out after I put the white glue / water primer coat on? The scratch wood is a lot softer and pliable. I can bend the formers quite a bit, without breaking them. Can't do that with the kit wood. I think the water content is higher. Is this OK? Should I dry it out? Leave it out to bake in the sun for a while? Will it shrink?

Huge frowns when I think about covering, but that's for later posts.

Apologies for such long posts and hope I am not violating forum protocol. Please do not hesitate to tell me if I am.

Thanks again everyone.
Regards, Rana

[SteveM]

Your Fevikwik sounds like what we call "CA" or Cyanoacrylate glue. The fumes are very strong and can irritate the eyes and will instantly bond your fingers together. These types of glues are best applied with CA tips rather than the rather large hole in the bottle's tip.

[supercruiser]

I made some progress with the glues. ..... Experimented using the scrap wood from the kit ..

Sounds like you are right on track... experiementing to figure things out is one of the great aspects of this hobby.

I made copies of the plan and laminated the original.

Smart idea.

The kit wood sands clean and smooth. However, even with the smoothest sandpaper, the scratch wood has real fine hairs sticking out. Is this good or bad? Will this get sorted out after I put the white glue / water primer coat on?

Yes. After you apply the glue/water seal coat, sand again. Should smooth right out.

The scratch wood is a lot softer and pliable......I think the water content is higher. Is this OK? Should I dry it out? Leave it out to bake in the sun for a while? Will it shrink?

It is o.k. to use it as it is.

Huge frowns when I think about covering, but that's for later posts.

It's really fun once you get a little practice.

Apologies for such long posts and hope I am not violating forum protocol. Please do not hesitate to tell me if I am.

Long posts are not really a problem, especially if they are questions about how to do something. If you post photos on this forum I suggest resize to 600 x 400 or in that range. Maybe you could start another post here just about building your Spitfire.

Regards, Rana

[/quote]


supercruiser

[ranarc]

Supercruiser,

The sanding stick worked great!!! Thanks!!

Didn't think about pictures. Will pull out the camera and start a new post.

Regards, Rana

[thymekiller]

Hope these will get you started.

parts:

http://www.shortysbasement.com/index.php

http://www.peck-polymers.com/store/Default.asp?Cguid={2CA9EBA1-0824-41B2-90FA-1A3960ADC299}

http://store.s-smedical.com/pns.html

http://www.pennvalleyhobbycenter.com/ru ... rcraft.htm

http://northeasternscalelumber.com/osc/ ... ucts_id=97

http://www.gizmogeezer.com/pfwinstructi ... thrustline

http://www.plazaart.com/products.php?pa ... &id=425066

http://www.balsamodels.com/Parts/kitparts.htm

http://www.sigmfg.com/cgi-bin/dpsmart.e ... html?E+Sig

http://www.sigmfg.com/cgi-bin/dpsmart.e ... html?E+Sig

Heres a good dvd:

http://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa ... ;topicseen

It will take awhile to go thru the offerings of these company's. If you cant find what you need, let me know. I have MANY more.


2 Guillows warkawks. I put one on a serious diet. Hope the pic works.

thymekiller

[ranarc]

Many thanks thymekiller!! Will study / check these.

Is that the Hawker Hurricane 506? The one on the right (just fuselage) is the skinny one. Right? Doesn't this impact the strength? Did you build the cockpit for this yourself? How will you remove the wrinkle in the center panel? A heat gun? I haven't access to the the plan, are the two piece (cut) stringers in the wings by design?

SteveM you were right! Fevikwik is CA. The small 2g tube I bought as a test didn't say so, the larger 25g tube says this and lots of warnings on the package. Looking out for CA tips like you recomend. Metric units are the norm here, so "g"is grams. 1/16" transalates to 1.5mm plus sanding:-)
Spent a lot of time studying the 504 Spitfire plan. Playing the build in my mind. Found one minor mistake. The outline of former B2 is marked as B3 in the plan. There are two B3s.

Some of the notching problems are caused by the die stamping. Sometimes the die has stamping for notches which causes small breakages when you try to notch it Even with supercrusier's great tip. The top notches of B1 and B3 for sure. Should I continue to build with this breakage or try to fix it?

Regards, Rana

[thymekiller]

You are very welcome!
No, those are both series 500 p 40 warhawks. I have built about 3 1/2 of them. The shinny one was hollowed out AFTER constrution. Kinda like gutting a fish. Weighs about half as much. The build is posted here:

http://www.stickandtissue.com/cgi-bin/y ... 16592773/0

After the crash and re-build, is posted here:

http://www.stickandtissue.com/cgi-bin/y ... 1215695916

Making new parts or fixing the old ones is a topic of GREAT debate. It depends on you. What do you think is the best for you. Both ways will work if you make them.
Something that MIGHT help, is to put tape on the back side before you cut the parts out. Also, you can sand the parts sheet to about half the thickness. The parts come loose easyer and they weigh less. Sometimes.

Sorry about the poor spelling. I hope it doesent confuse.

thymekiller

[thymekiller]

Greetings,

There is something else I should mention. The reason I built so many of the same plane was to get it to fly. If you ask 10 people how to do something, you will get 11 answers. Most answers are good. The truth is there are many ways to do everything. Dont let that confuse you. Listen to them all and pick one and try it. If it works, GREAT. If not , try something else. Thats the best part of building. Every part is a decision. Every part is a choice.
Yes, making it lighter does make it weaker, most of the time. Its a trade off. If you are new, then you should lean towards strengh. I am blessed with a perfect field right next door. Not much chance of hitting anything but the ground. If there are things around you to crash into, go for strengh. If you think building it is a challange, wait till you try to fly it....
Its a BLAST!!!
No matter what you decide, the next one is always better. THATS the best part of all. Learning. Prepareing for the next one.

heres a vid in my test field. The big one is across the street. If it hits anything, its ruined. Risky. Big fun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3WRzjCn7ek

Best wishes, good luck, and please keep us posted.

thymekiller

[ranarc]

Greetings thymekiller,

I want to fly them. Building many of the same plane makes sense to me. Improve it with each build. I met up with a few aero modelers in my city. All of them are into ARF / RTF RC. But I did learn things from the afternoon with them.

Hope some day I can post a video of the flight of a model that I built.

Regards, Rana