Series 300 Piper Cub build

[scigs30]

Well it has been awhile since I have built anything. I have been real busy so building has slowed down. I have built most of the 500 series minus the Stuka. I have been wanting to build this Cub for awhile and I was lucky to buy this kit for 7 bucks. The problem is there are some minor changes that have to be made for this plane to fly. Also the wood that came with this kit is horrible. Now I will admit that Guillows has been great with sending me new wood when requested, but this time I don't want to wait. I went to the hobby store to pick up some balsa and will begin to cut my pieces out. I guarantee this is much quicker than trying to use the supplied die crushed oak. Now my little soap box.....I bought this kit at a garage sale for 7 bucks in its wrapper. I am noticing that these kits are going for 20 bucks. I think for that much Guillows can afford to supply better quality balsa. I don't think they need to lazy cut the wood, but it should be better quality. Also Guillows is now doing a great job of supplying a supplemental instruction sheet on converting this kit to electric. Why can't they add a supplemental sheet on how to make a functioning nose block and how much dihedral to add? Two final comments...For 20 bucks it would be nice to have a bigger prop, 6 or 7 inches would be fine. Also throw in some rubber that can really power this bird. With those couple of changes, a beginner could build one of these kits and it would fly ok. I don't mind all the parts and extra balsa, for a beginner this is great. Trying to build a fragile model is hard for a beginner. These kits allow beginners to learn basic skills such as sanding and trimming to fly. I will take pictures along the way and post some of the changes I have to do in order for this bird to fly. The structure will remain the same except with changes to the cowling for a functional nose block.

[scigs30]

I have the cowling cut but decided not to use it this time. I think I am going to extend the stringers and fill in the front with balsa. If I was going to use the plastic, I would build a balsa square inside the plastic cowl and make a functioning nose block. The area has to be large since this bird is going to require a lot nose wt. I will also add some down thrust. I bought some cheap wood at the LHS and below is the wt comparison. There is no way I could fly this via rubber powered. I was wondering if Guillows intentionally added the heavy wood for people to convert this kit to R/C?

Guillows Supplied balsa sttrips

LHS balsa sticks

Guillows 1/16 sheet wood

LHS wood

[scigs30]

Guillows 3/32

LHS 3/32

The beginning of my nose block

[scigs30]

When I added up the wood....Guillows=83.95 grams LHS=28 grams.

[thymekiller]

Thats crazy.
I generally just buy the plans and plastic. When I ordered my javelin, the lady on the phone said that was pretty comman. The sheet wood for my cessna 180 was decent, [ebay. 6 bucks shipping and all] but the strip wood.... well you know.


thymekiller

[scigs30]

I think that is what I am going to do. I can order the plans and plastic parts and save my money for better quality wood. I just wonder if Guillows is supplying heavier wood since a lot of people are building these kits for R/C. I say this because when I search "Guillows" most build pictures are on the R/C forums. Oh well still fun kits to build even if I have to supply my own wood.

[RG WILLIAMS]

scigs30,
I could not agree with your "soap box" more.
Guillows has spent nothing on developing new products in decades. Some of these designs are over 40 years old.
It all comes down to max profits. I wish they would send a decent prop.,instead of that thick red junk they call a prop. And instead of sending decent rubber,they suggest going to the hobby shop to obtain a proper motor.
I know price of the kits are ok , but if I wanted a static model I will buy a plactic kit.
By the time you spend the extra effort and money , cost plus shipping,in trying to modify the kit to fly well, you are better off obtaining a kit from another company or building from the free plans offered from places like Mike's flying models.
I don't plan to purchase Guillows kits in the future.
rg

[scigs30]

The one thing I like about Guillows is that they are in every toy store and hobby shop. Peck, Dumas, EasyBuilt and Dare are normally only available online. I think with a few minor changes Guillow kits would be able to fly for the average beginner. The new laser cut kits are awesome, but I know that drives up the cost of the kit and takes time to produce. To keep cost down I would be happy with quality print wood vs die crushed oak. I will always support Guillows, simply because they do attract a small group of people into our diminishing hobby of freeflight.

[RG WILLIAMS]

SIGS30,
The Guillows kits are found in lots of toy stores , this is true. They also attract a number of first time buyers because of the box covers and the "Flying Scale Model" description on said box cover.
What is equally true is that they turn lots of people off to FF model building because , built by the plan, many of them fly like lead bricks.
Most new modelers , Kids, are going to buy the less expensive models.They don't plan to use gas or electric power. The 900 and 600 kits should be given better wood and props.
The 500 series should be advertised as display models unless serious changes are made to the product. Kids don't know they have to change all the wood,prop.,and rubber to build an ac that gives more than a flight that looks like a slow crash.
The equipment the Guillows uses to cut the wood kits has been paid for many years ago. Perhaps over 40 years ago. I have seen kit of the FW-190 from the 1960's. It looks the same today. Perhaps they use the hard and heavy balsa because the old equipment can't cut lighter,and better quality material. Perhaps it's also to save costs.
In any event, the results are the same.
It's possible that Guillows has done more to discourage the FF Hobby than encourage it.
Exhibit A : Look at the UK and Germany. They have kits that actually fly. They laugh at Guillows products.
The FF sport/hobby is big in those countries. FF Rubber , FF Gas , FF CO2
FF Jetex , FF Rapier jet, FF Gliders.
Perhaps kids are too much into video games in this country , although the UK and Germany also have video games.
Let's give kids a line of models that they can actually build and fly without having to be a 35 yo engineer to modify them. And I know Guillows does produce a line of "Sleek Streek" type of " models" for learning that cost about 12 dollars.They do fly, but the information gained doesn't transfer to most of the other product line , unless you just want to buy the plans for the AC.
I think the best way to encourage the hobby is to not buy Guillows kits unless they make changes in the product line.
I will encourage my LHS to carry a better line of kits. I will encourage kids to join a local flying club ,as I have done. If I know of a kid who is interested in the hobby I will promise to buy him or her a decent kit.
Best Regards
rg

[supercruiser]

I think the best way to encourage the hobby is to not buy Guillows kits unless they make changes in the product line.
I will encourage my LHS to carry a better line of kits. I will encourage kids to join a local flying club ,as I have done. If I know of a kid who is interested in the hobby I will promise to buy him or her a decent kit.
Best Regards
rg

C'mon RG, tell us how you really feel.


It's not all bad...

My son and I are going to build a Javelin. I built one when I was his age and it flew very well. I think I paid about $3.00 if that gives you an idea how long ago it was. On a warm day with a well lubed band, the plane caught a thermal and was never seen again. Pepster

[thymekiller]

I agree that there could be better wood. There could be a "pro" version of the plans, with tips.
However.
I dont think that bashing Guillows kits or asking to stop buying them or else... is the right thing to do on a free site hosted by Guillows.
Heavy wood is not the only reason most folks first plane wont win a contest. It takes pratice and skill to fly.
I think to point of this site is to help new people overcome whatever shortfalls a kit has and help them succead. If they like the hobby in general, they will naturally proceed to bigger, better ways and means.
Yes, the wood is heavy. That thread has been done .
I replace whatever I think is too heavy. Not when I first started this hobby, but now I pretty much freehand and cheat at will.
Dont mean to preach, but lets not let this get out of hand.

thymekiller

[RG WILLIAMS]

thymekiller,
I guess you should read my post more carefully. I never said "stop buying the kit or else" Whatever that means.
And it's true that you need practice and skill to build a model that performs well. I just don't think it's a good plan to give a kid or a new modeler a kit that gives them two strikes against them. Heavy wood and a kit lacking in important design features. Nose Block,Guillows are you listening.?
I don't think a kid or new modeler should have to " free hand and cheat" to have a decent flying model.
My gripe is that Guillows knows about these problems and does nothing about it. They have no competition and thus no desire improve the product line. My guess. They send out new inproved sales info. with the same unimproved products. Many kids and new modelers,notice I said many and not all, buy only one Guillows kit. " I built a Guillows kit and it flew like a brick,or it glided 20 feet or less and crashed". How many times do we hear that? So much for promoting the hobby.

supercruiser,
The Javelin is a good design that is found in many product lines. It could also be improved with lighter wood, better prop, and rubber.
I also once saw a piece of plastic caught in a thermal and it went out of sight.
I think an improved product line would spur greater sales and thus more people joining the hobby and starting flying clubs.
I think this old American company can and should do better. If the obvious facts , as reflected on this forum and Guillows is aware of, are not stated why should Guillows do something about same old same old.
I don't think a model advertised as a flying model for a kid ten yo and up should take so much modification to fly .
And no thyemkiller, I don't think you are preaching, unless you are a Pastor. I'm preaching.With all due respect, you are the one content with same old same old.
rg

[dbcisco]

I think it is precisly the "same old" that keeps these balsa model companies in business. It is the nostalgia factor. I can buy a prebuilt all balsa and monocted DR1that flies perfect for $80 so why get a kit that, based on my hourly rate" cost me $1000 and will probably crash and be rebuilt a few times before it really flies ? Because it is the way it was done when I was a kid. No rhyme or reason other than I buy them because they haven't changed much. Even the laser cutting is not much different from the kits made with the new dies years ago (as opposed to the ones made with worn out dies that crushed the wood and didn't dut all the way through). Why do people restore old cars when they can go out and buy a new and better one for a lot less? Why does a Model T ford cost a forune?

Nothing wrong with "same old, same old" IMHO.

[RG WILLIAMS]

dbcisco,
It's apples and oranges.
What makes you happy with a kit, the " nostalgia factor" is not what will attract a young modeler. They are not middle aged or older. They have yet to develop a "nostalgia factor" We need young folks to have a positive building experience. That calls for an improved product. Perhaps only very minor changes are needed. I do agree that same old is ok with some things, but not everything.
Restoring old cars is interesting , I have a rebuilt 67 MGB electric OD. It was lots of work, and not for everyone to attempt. I think any person,young or older, should attempt to build a kit advertised as a flying model for 10 yo or older and have a model that will actually fly, if they use the supplied contents of the kit and the directions are followed. I don't think a young modeler always has the knowledge or funds to modify a kit.
The "nostalgia factor" is more likely to be a factor in later life if it's associated with a positive building experience . I just think Guillows could do more to facilitate that end result.
Best Regards
rg

[dbcisco]

It has been working for them for 75 years or so. Whydo you say it doesn't work well? My dad built them, I built them, kids and adults still build them. Not sure if your point is valid. I have no problem with the kits. The point of all of the balsa models it to build a "scratch" model with some guidance and help with the really difficult bits.