Guillow's Product line

[supercruiser]

RG Williams brought up some valid points and interesting opinion. Since I think it was cluttering up scigs30 build thread I think it ought to be a new topic. Anyone care to continue? I would like to state my opinion.


I subscriber to 4 or 5 free flight model airplane discussion groups. Invariably, someone will ask, " what would you recommend for a first model for myself" or some kids school, etc. This generally gets a lively, sometimes heated discussion. Very rarely, I mean very rarely, does anyone recommend a Guillow kit. I think RG has stated the very reasons why.
I also think that Guillow recognizes this and has done things to address the situation. I would recommend to any new start the 4000 learning series.
Are there better 'starting' kits out there? Yes. I'll get to that in a minute.
Also, I noticed that Guillow has put on some boxes FOR THE ADULT COLLECTOR. This appears on the 500 Stuka, 500 Spitfire, 900 Typhoon,
and oddly enough the Birddog. I think they recognize the difficulty of getting these models to fly. The wood: obviously the heavier wood is cheaper, i.e. lower costs kits. I am sure they could put better grade wood in their kits. The cost of the kit would be very similar to say a Dumas kit.
I personally don't want to spend $22.00 for a 16" wing span Wildcat.
But, what do to do about the 8 year old kid who wants a flyable model?
I think he ought to have good grade wood in the Build-by-number series.

I've got more to say but, my break is over. Talk to y'all later.

[thymekiller]

First, I would like to apoloige to Scriggs30 for hi-jacking his thead. Sorry.

RG does have a few valid points and I think a thread is needed. I just posted on the other thread, but here is better. I will post here, on this subject, from now on.
Price is a valid bit that I hadnt thought of. How much would it cost to include better strip wood? The parts are printed on the plans, so I think that issue is ok. [ good enough for me ] Lighter strip wood would help alot.
Also, Perhaps a bit on the plans for correct dihedral for flying and correct dihedral for display would help.
Posting stickys on basic stuff here on this forum would also help.

thymekiller

[svaughn]

1) Put the URL for this forum all over the kits (the box, the plans, the instructions, on a separate slip of paper...)

2) Create a web site for each model with very detailed step by step instructions. Mike Stuart does this for a scratch built model (see: http://www.ffscale.co.uk/comper.htm). The virtual aerodrome has some of this (I love that site), but it is not usually comprehensive enough to a rank beginner.

I've been looking for very detailed information about models in the 500 series on the topic of getting them to fly. I have found a lot of good stuff on the Internet, but most of it is not very specific. I would like to see information like:
How much can a specific model weigh and expect to fly for 15 sec, 30 sec or 60 sec? What are practical target weights for the rudder, stabilizer, wing and fuselage?

4) Put how-to videos on youtube. Not just tips, but again detailed step by step instructions for a specific model (i.e. how to build a 501 P40 Warhawk).

5) make separate instructions for people building the kit for flying and people building for display.

6) sponsor some events where kids could see the models other people had built and maybe even have flight contests with prizes. I bet a lot of kids have never even heard of balsa model airplanes. This would be great for intermissions a minor league sports events.
[/list]

[scigs30]

I have posted some of my 500 series builds on this website. Also I posted this detailing how long each bird flew. http://balsamodels.com/phpBB/viewtopic. ... highlight=
I don't think a few changes would cost much. Guillows already supplies supplemental instructions so they could do this detailing: Increase dihedral, correct rubber size and functioning nose block. Also I wish I could have the option of ordering printed wood and I could cut out the pieces. Cutting out the pieces of wood does not take long, it is the copying and arranging the parts from the plans that takes time.

[supercruiser]

What about that young model builder? Has Guillow really turned off potential hobbyists? Better wood, prop, etc would help, are they necessary to gain and keep the interest of the beginner? Maybe. For a youngster, a 30' flight is pretty wonderful. Certainly, there is a balance between: ease of building/ flying ability versus cost. In this esoteric and declining hobby, the margin is likely very small. I don't think the Build-by-number series requires modification to fulfill it's purpose as an introductory model.
If you were to suggest a first car for a young driver, would it be a Nissan Sentra (for example) or an Acura Legend? The Acura is a better car.
But which "fits" the situation better?

To paraphrase RG:'Should and can this old American company do better'? Yes. And they have to some extent. I think that laser cutting machine cost quite a bundle of $$$. This forum is another example, as thymekiller pointed out. I have seen some improvements in the quality of wood in the kits. I think market constraints prevent sweeping changes. Could Guillow price themselves out of the market? Very likely.
The 2000 series P-38 retails for $96.00. Way out of my budget.
Free Plans off the internet were virtually unheard of more than about 10 years ago. My local hobby shop no longer sells any free flight model kits.
I remember a few years back they had almost the complete line of Guillow kits. Did Guillow's inadvertently contribute to situation this by producing a 'sorry' line of kits? Not in my estimation. (And I don't think the kits are sorry).

How to effect a change? If Guillow is really concerned about a quality product, they will listen to the customer. It's just good business sense.


I am not trying to rant or stand on a soapbox. Just provide a different perspective.

Happy model building and flying, to all.

[thymekiller]

Again, I see that this website is the single best thing that Guillows or any other has ever done. The link from scrigs30 is a great link. There are some others like it.
Somewhere, we have a thread of how-to vids collected from u-tube.

I think, at this point, infomation and support is the best thing we could offer the new people. It wont cost Guillows anything more than the cost of this site, and it wont cost US anything but some time.
I keep thinking about a how-to vid. I guess instead of waiting and talking, I should do it.
I am hoping that with economic times like they are, perhaps there will be a trend towards cheaper " fun things "

thymekiller

[svaughn]

I think one of the big advantages Guillow has is that some of the kits they sell now are basically the same kits they sold 50 years ago. These are kits that today's kid's fathers and grandfathers built.

My memory maybe faulty, but I believe I loved the Guillow gliders and the simple rubber powered models (like today's JetStream). Getting them to fly off the ground and then land without crashing was great fun. My recollection is that I played with these until I was 10 or 11 and then I got my first built up model. I think it may have been aeronca champ (301).

I remeber building several other planes mostly from the old 100 series. In 6th grade I contributed an albatros to be autioned for a fund class fundraiser. A classmates father built and condributed the FW-190 (502) which was very impressive to me.

I'm not sure age is a good indicator of someone's potential to build and enjoy these models. It has more to do with a child's disposition: patience maybe the most important think. Fine motor skills are probably a close second. There are 10 year olds that could build models from the 300, 500, 900 series. There are teenagers that couldn't assemble the JetStream.

[dbcisco]

I have students that could build any of the kits, and students that couldn't make a paper airplane in a million years.
The thing that got me reinterested in kits again was the electric convertions. So "my" changes to the kits would be to forget the rubber bands and paper. (smiley) IMHO they are kits to be made into what ever you want them to be (within limits). I would also redesign all plastic model helicopters so that I can more easily turn them into flying models (smiley, again). Everybody has a different point of view. What makes the kits so great is they are so darned versatile. Change them too much and they won't be as good for as many people.

[scigs30]

Does anyone know if Guillows ever plans to convert all their kits to laser cut? If so when? I bought the WW1 collection that all laser cut and I must say these are awsome kits with nice wood.

[thymekiller]

Are you talking about the 200 series? Been wanting to try one of those.

thymekiller

[dbcisco]

Does anyone know if Guillows ever plans to convert all their kits to laser cut? If so when? I bought the WW1 collection that all laser cut and I must say these are awsome kits with nice wood.

I have a couple laser cut WWI's waiting for me to finish the die cut models. I am wondering what "nice" means to you. I want more strenght and a little more weight won't hurt mine.

[supercruiser]

I recently (almost) finished by 200 series SE5A, laser cut kit. That is a nice kit. Sorry, to keep using that word. The wood is consistent in density and grain. With the laser cut pieces, building was easy. The pieces fell out of the sheet and fit together wonderfully. Right now my model wing loading is .45 gm/sq. in. No rubber motor in it, yet. I want to install the wire bracing and other details. I know it will weigh more, but I think it will still be a nice flier.
Gotten some compliments on how it looks.

[dbcisco]

I am finishing my mongrel electric 200 SE5. Die crushed formers worked OK for the fuselage and I had to do some modding to fit the electronics, motor and battery. I decided to (shhhh) make depron wings for flying and balsa ones for show. Flying weight came out at 10 ounces. A tad heavy but with a 200 speed motor it should fly decent.

As I have said, the beauty of these kits are that they are many things to many people.

[bsadonkill]

The problem with guillows kits are not just the quality of the wood, but also the quanity. For example the 300 ,400 series models have large size
bulkheads , wide and large leding and trailing edges. This makes a model
sturdy but heavy.

[cliffm]

after 50 yrs. or so I have started the modeling again and after finishing the corsair which was a combination of laser and press cut their is no doubt about the difference in the quality of parts. I just started a catalina and the parts are all press cut, some being quite good and some I should have given a light coat of dope to before cutting. some of the wood was quite dry and flaky but it's pretty hard to know how old the stuff is as the latest date I can find on the whole kit is1991. I was impressed with the instructions in the catalina so far with some of the useful hints and procedures which would have been very handy on the corsair(guillows 1004). I expeimented with latex paint and have mixed results with application, but that for another thread. I got my catalina on-line for 64.99 plus $10 shipping which is the same price I paid for my corsair at a hobby shop that"s 170 mile trip so forgive me for not patronizing locally but economics rules. I have been having very good luck with the white glue mix for dope. As for motivating our upcoming youth into the balsa modeling,flying, display,hobby, have you even remotely been involved with the curriculums at our school systems? I taught high school welding for one semester and that was enough. the folks in this profession are so grossly underpaid it is criminal negligence on our part as citizens to turn our backs to this situation. the credentials required for the positions are far too costly for anyone wanting to live above poverty level to consider devoting their lives for such small monetary compensation. Anyway, enough soapbox rhetoric. Overall I guess I feel fortunate that ther is still an old hobby like this around for some of us old diehards to have a full variety of accesories to choose from and easily accesed where ever you may be.