All up weight for an electric 406 FW190

[arryauster]

Hi guys - being a rc modeller of over 30 years standing, nearly all large'ish ic warbirds, I'm now venturing into the small electric kind (something I can build on the dining room table, like when I was a kid back in the 50's and 60's building the Keil Kraft stuff, rather than freeze in my shed.
Looking back though the threads here, there doesn't seem to be any new stuff relating to the latest higher powered outrunner motors coupled with Lipo batteries.
After chatting with knowledgeable types at the local modelling shop (although none of 'em have ever built or flown a Guillows) I think I've finally decided on the kit that I intend to install:

2822 Turnigy, 1200kv, 150w,
Total weight with spinner, fittings and 8x5 prop - 59gms
500a, 11.1v 3 cell lipo - 47gms
BEC, 30A ESC - 26gms
2 x pico servos @ 7gms each - 14 gms
Assan 4 channel micro Rx - 3gms
Total - 149gms

My question is 'Will this lot be too heavy for the 406 FW190', especially as I should also like to sheet the whole a/c in 1/32 balsa - I'd sure like to know what the maximum AUW is that somebody has successfully flown one of these.
Any tips, advice will be gratefully received.
BTW - I'm still waiting for the kit to arrive (nothing moves in little ol' England when a tiny bit of snow falls).

[Anders]

I have the 400 series Bf 109 with a 2,4 Ghz Assan micro reciver , a 11,1 3 cell 1000 mah lipo a 1700 kv brushless engine( 35 grams), 2x 9 grams servos and a 15A esc. and a 7x 6 propeller.

With that much engine power and rudder and elevator controlled the takeoff`s can be interesting so i recommend aileron controlled.

I`m not sure about the scheeting, but it mighte be okay. my bf 109 is heavy but flies great( covered in paper wich is thicker than normal A4 paper.
and also i reccomend making place for the battery in the front before assembly( cut away balsa from fuselage formers).

With the 1000 mah battery i get a flight time of 20 - 30 minutes.

Good luck!

[arryauster]

Thanks for the speedy response Anders - you've given me heart saying that your 109 flys well - it looks like your a/c is carrying slightly more weight (namely the 1000 lipo) than my intended 190.
Did you build yours as Guillow supplied the kit, or did you have to modified the kit in any way?
I'm reckoning on building my fus using the crutch system and do away with most of the stringers other than one that I'll make slightly beefier in the centre and then sheet(plank) the whole thing with 1/32 balsa - I've used this style many times before on larger models with considerable success - I normally use ammonia to soak the balsa in before bending to shape along the fus - did you know that you can actually tie a knot in 1/8 balsa without it splitting once it's been soaked in ammonia - but I don't think that 'her-in-charge' would be happy with it in the dinning room.
Also, after reading older posts regarding wings, I think that I can safely omit at least half of the wing ribs if I'm gonna fully sheet them - did you alter the wing section and/or add wash out at wing tips on your 109?
Thanks again Colin (aka 'arry)

[Anders]

I mostly built it as supplied in the kit, but did some changes. I used 1 mm balsa to cover from the cokpit and to the nose ( you might know that we don`t use inches that much in Norway) . and i also made the rudder steerable. And i did some minor changes, like using carbon fibre to re-inforce the wing joint`s, and i added a lot of dihedral ( at first i added only a bit and it ended in a crash landing). And when i added more dihedral i also re- built the senter section. But if you make ailerons you shud be able to build it with scale dihedral. Other than that i built it as supplied in the kit.

As for the her-in-charge i don`t yet have such issues as i am only 16 years. So thaks for the Ammonia tips, ill have to try it!

Also i have some pics posted on Virtualareodrome.com and here is my link.
http://www.virtualaerodrome.com/image_d ... 66&offset=

Looking forvard to see how your 190 turns out!

[SteveM]

Also take a look at the two electric RC build threads for this plane at RCGroups. Just go to this list and scroll down to kit 406.

[arryauster]

Anders - looks like a nice build - the sheeting I intend to use is .8mm roughly equivalent to our 1/32", with possibly thicker balsa up the front end - as and when the kit eventually arrives I'll try and post my progress with it and show what-ever changes I make - don't rush into the 'Her-in-Charge' thing, it'll only curtail your model building fun for a good few years, at least until the kids are grown up.
Steve - thanks for the tip on the other forum - though what I found really interesting, were the other postings there for other models in the 400 series, which showed more or less exactly what I was looking for and were more current on the modern electric flight stuff.

[kittyfritters]

Don Butman built a 400 Series FW-190 free-flight powered by a Gasprin CO2 motor a couple of years ago. As I recall, it weighs 140 grams, so your electric powered, RC version doesn't sound out of line.
[img][img]http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o207/kittyfritters/000_0155.jpg[/img]

Seems as though it should fly.

[arryauster]

Hi guys - I flew my FW190 on Sunday and guess what - yes, you guessed it, it flew superbly - straight out of my hand - the all up weight came out to exacly 350gms (12.5ozs), but I only managed to achieve 5 mins with the first flight and after downsizing the prop to 8" it managed 6 mins - I don't reckon on reducing the prop any more, so I reckon I'm gonna have change the 500mah for a 1,000mah Lipo which will put close on another 50gms on the all up weight - I don't feel this in its self would be a problem - but the main problem now is that the larger lipo won't fit into the comparment I'd made behind the engine bulkhead - I reckon I'm gonna have to insert it through the wing aperture and former B2 after some modification - luckily I have only one bolt which attached the wing at the rear, so getting to it, to change it won't be too much of a problem.
Hopefully I've attached some pictures of the finished article - Ah! I've just remembered that I've also gotta modify the cowling in some way as it's certainly not man enough for the belly landings (well not mine anyway).
If anyone wants to see the build sequence, I have some pictures of that as well - although it's basically a Guillows the only parts used from the kit, were the plans, tail bits, fuselage formers and plastic items - not being able to buy a commercially made 1/16 pilot, I even made 'Hans' myself.
Colin

[flash52]

Arryauster
Nice Butcher Bird. The finish is excellent. Can you tell or show your aileron set up?
flash52

[arryauster]

Hi flash - no problem, the ailerons are operated by one servo mounted in the centre of the top surface of the wing - torque rods running through plastic tubes are embeded into the trailing edges of the wing - the ends are bent at right angles and inserted into the ailerons - at the root end they are bent vertical protruding from the wing and then linked to the servo arms - to keep the weight down I used very fine wire and was quite worried that it would flex too much under load, but it was fine as the model is relatively light - I used a symetrical section for the wing so's it will fly just as good upside down and sheeted it with 1/32 (0.8mm) balsa, great to work with but doesn't leave much if you have to sand - I built the wings over the plan and left a few of the ribs out I cut out my ribs from my patterns leaving the tags on these tags allowed for wash out at the tips to be built in, essential for a model like this - I sheeted the top of the wings whilst it was all 'stuck' down over plan to keep everything warp free - if you're gonna go down the torque rod path make sure you drill the holes in the back of the ribs before assembling the wing - I've got a PDF of the ribs if you want - I've attached a few of pics showing the build stage - Colin.

Wing showing Torque rods and tubes

Underside of wing before sheeting

Symetrical ribs showing tabs used to effect wash out

Picture showing tabs at work and new style spars

Finished wing after being doped - it's a really strong and light construction

[Scott]

That's a great looking FW,Arryauster.

[arryauster]

Hiya Flash - Just to clarify the aileron action, here's some more pics that I've just taken, showing the actual aileron fittings and servo - I think in hindsight that I should have gone for a slightly heavier gauge of wire.
.

[flash52]

Hi Arry

Nice and clean installation. Is the lighter gauge wire causing problems? Flutter or something?

Flash

[arryauster]

No, not at the moment Flash - it flew as sweet as a bird for the short flights that it had - really responsive - I'm just a bit concerned, especially if I happen to put it into a VNE dive and try to barrel roll it out half way down - the push rods from the servos are fine, it's the torque rods in the wing that need just a gauge up and I reckon it would make all the difference without adding to much weight, or perhaps even a servo in each wing - I think I'm beginning to get the small electric buzz, now that this one's turned out ok - I think I'll use this one as a test bed to try out different motors/batteries an stuff, then crack on and make another, taking a bit more care whilst utilising all that I've learnt - at least I can make 'em in the warm, on the dining room table.
Cheers 'arry.

[simonlschmitz]

This was my first Guillow build/conversion. I thought that it would be too heavy to fly but you just have to fly a little faster. My original plan was to cover it using monocote but decided to cover the entire model with 1/32nd balsa, which probably added a lot of weight. I used the same basic aileron setup as Arry only a little heavier wire. I am building a Zero Guillow's 400 series right now and I'll try to make it a lot lighter by using the techniques you are using here. I would recommend building as light as possible so you can land at slower speeds.

Total - 17.2 oz (490 gm)
2208 RC Timer 1400kv
7x5 Master Airscrew Prop
11.1v 3 cell lipo - 1300mAh
30A ESC - RC Timer
3 x 5gms servo