A couple of questions...

[fychan]

I'm coming to the end of my first build (well, second actually, but I still haven't flown the first - weather's been appalling - and it didn't have these issues) and I've got a couple of questions that have cropped up - was hoping someone could point me in the right direction.

I'm doing the Series 400 Spitfire (RC gas conversion) at the moment, and am approaching the covering stage. I'm planning on wet covering with the tissue supplied in the box, then undercoating in a light grey, then painting the camouflage on top of that. I'm hoping to follow this paint scheme with the "Victory strips" just on the underside.

But, when it comes to decals:
1) I've heard they come out better if they're on a light colour underneath, as I'm planning on spray painting the model, does anyone have any ideas how I can mask off the areas for the decals so that the light undercoat is left behind? I think the perfect stuff would be the plastic film covering that you get on the front of new watches / iPods / cell phones etc that appears to be flexible enough to follow the contours and adhedisive enough to stand up to a spray paint, and not rip the tissue when removed - but I can't find any anywhere. How does everyone else do it? (I'm loathe to mask it using tape because of the RAF roundels will be a nightmare to get circular)

2) Because it's gas powered, I'm going to need to fuel-proof the plane. Current thinking is that I'll fuel-proof the plane, then dope it before covering, and then once I've covered & doped the tissue I'll put a final fuel proofing on top of that to ensure that the tissue is also coated. Is this going to cause any problems on the transfers? If I put another coat of dope on top of them, will they crinkle?

3) on another (related to the first) point, what's the best way to mask off the cockpit canopy? First thought was something like wood glue that I can then peel off afterwards but is there anything that is any better than that?

Please remember that I'm in the UK - and there isn't a hobby shop in the sense that you seem to have them over the pond Closest I've got is a model railway shop that sells plastic trees, and has a small selection of balsa wood, dope & Humbrol enamel modelling paints... Anything else will need to come from a hardware store (hence the wood glue concept)...

Sorry to be a pain & thanks for reading all my spiel

Fych

[supercruiser]

I can only answer part of your questions.
If you apply dope over the decals, I am fairly certain it will destroy the decal.
As for masking the canopy, you might try that model railway shop and look for Micro Mask or something similar. You paint it on and then it can be peeled off after you apply topcoat of paint.

[fychan]

Thanks...

Do you think the micromask would work on the tissue to mask off the regions for the transfers? Or would it pull off / soak into / the tissue?

[supercruiser]

I think there would be a problem of it soaking into the tissue. But, there is still the problem of getting a perfect circle. I think that if I were do this, I would put some masking tape onto a glass plate. Draw a circle with a compass, one that has two points (not a pencil). Keep going around and around the tape until a line is scribed into the tape and then gently "tear" away the excess tape. Then place the masking tape disk onto your model.

[fychan]

The Invasion Stripes are fairly easy to mask and paint if one remembers that lighter colors are easier to cover than dark so paint the white portion first.

Yeah, I was planning on light gray undercoat, masking off the sides, and all the stripes (to get the spacing right) then removing all the stripe masks, painting the white, masking off that bit, painting the black, then masking off on top of the black too and then painting the light blue undersides. Can't thnk why I was planning to do that now, it seems a lot more complex than just painting the blue and then the stripes over that.

Oh, and thank you for correcting the "invasion stripes" thing. I've always known them as that, but all the sites I could find out there (admittedly in the US) refer to them as Victory stripes - so I thought I must've been wrong

But before paint is even considered the tissue should be. The tissue supplied is very lightweight and there are at least two grades with much more strength and even the medium grade is a vast improvement. I personally always use the "heavy" grade

Again, it comes down to being in the UK - the model shop in the nearest town looked at me as if I was an alien when I asked if they had any dope - the model train shop doesn't do tissue. They only stock the iron on plastic stuff in BRIGHT orange. Not what I was looking for To get any I'm left with eBay, or buying from Guillows & shipping fmor the states, for tissue paper....

I'm a bit out of my league relative to fuel proofing but I think it's done after the painting and I see no reason to do it before.

Only thinking on this was to proof the balsa inside, in case of any spillages, or leaks etc. I may just proof the area around the tank and refill pipes...

Instead of a final coat of dope you might consider a couple of coats of clear gloss acrylic which is fuel proof.

Do they do a matt? Is that fuel proof? I'd bought some clear matt enamel to take the sheen off the gloss fuel proofer for just that reason

And in fact, if you've read any of my posts before you know I'm a big fan of using acrylic paints for my models and use it all the way through the finishing process.

Yes - read all your hints posts, read all your comments on Virtual Aerodrome, watched all your builds with interest. Beautiful creations and I'd be daft not to follow your advice Especially as I came to the same conclusion as you, independantly, about the lack of shape with the stringers they provide, so I'd already started doubling up when I read your post on it.

I really can't imagine using enamel, for anything.

Only reason is coz I've got a bin bag full of them from when I was a younger lad and made the 1:72 Airfix kits

I have no qualms about helping a fellow modeler living in my ancestral country with a gift from the colonies.

Thank you for the (very) generous offer. I'll have a poke around the modelling and artwork shops near me this weekend...

I hope this helps. There are ways of masking the roundels but I'll wait to see if this works because it's much easier.

Yes... I noticed you mentioned how it'll be harder for the fusilage ones - them having both yellow AND white in them - and then failed to mention any ideas on solving that thorny issue I think I might give supercruiser's compass idea a go on that one...

[fychan]

Go to www.dickblick.com/zz252/04/ and you'll discover a product called Art Mask which should solve your problem with masking.

That looks like it's exacty the sort of thing I've been trying to find. Thanks

I'll add it to my list of stuff to get from the art shop (or at least, ask about) if I can convince the wife that I need to go there this weekend

In painting Invasion Stripes I paint the white area first and mask and paint the black areas. Then I paint all the other colors. On real aircraft of the time the stripes were often just slopped on and were painted over the existing paint.

The reason behind my logic I've just recalled... it was that I wanted the white to be white, and thus over the light grey undercoat would be best, not over the blue... And I was (probably still am) going to spray paint it (I have a spray gun that I used to use with the enamel paints, I'll need to do some tests with the acrylic ...) hence the covering of the black before then painting the blue.

As for the historical perspective, I'm sure that with the number of aircraft that needed to be done, and the time period they would have had to do it in, it would have been very slap-dash... However (as I'm sure you're aware - I've found that things look more realistic when they are painted how people expect them to be, rather than how they actually were (when painting landscapes on my childrens bedroom walls for instance, I always paint the highlights & shadows relative to the window - regardless of the fact that in grey old London the ceiling light provides the illumination 75% of the time ).

Hopefully this will be of some help.

As always, you've been more than helpful (I've been a lurker - reading your posts & putting them to good use for a while now )

Finding a simple solution to a problem is an ongoing challenge and part of the fun of building models.

Oh yes. I hear Xanadu's pain from earlier today - I've had many such problems on this build - especially trying to fit 3 servos, a receiver, battery set, petrol tank & push-rods into the 400 series Spitfire

Rather than bore you all with problems I've already "solved" (ha!) you're welcome to read about my build here - and if you're interested - the current state of my plane can be seen here:
http://mud.philtanner.com/newgallery/Ko ... C00145.JPG

Thanks again David.

Phil

[fychan]

I'll add it to my list of stuff to get from the art shop (or at least, ask about) if I can convince the wife that I need to go there this weekend

The joys of Working From Home (on Thursdays at least) I managed to sneak a trip in to the art shop on the way back from picking up the kids from school.

Got myself some brown, green, black, white and light blue acrylics, liquid (latex) mask (for the canopy) and some of the Frisk(?) artists mask too for the roundels. Oh, and some clear matte acrylic varnish - which I presume is what you meant by the clear acrylic for fuel proofing... At least - it was the only suggestion by the lady in the shop - don't think she'd ever had anyone that wasn't an "artist" buying materials from her before

Walked out $90 lighter mind you Still, I'll knock up some panels of balsa & tissue soon so I can start testing how things come out...

Thanks again for your help (both of ya)

Phil

[fychan]

If you want to see my approach to realism on canvas go to www.sofinee.com and you'll see some hints of what one can do with acrylic paint.

I was just there in fact (linked from your "painting with acrylics" post - which I thought would be worth re-reading!) - you've done some lovely stuff - I like the F16 & SR71 especially - and the Monterry(sp?) Oak... Very well done.

And thanks for the compliments on the Spit' - I'll post my final images up to Virtual Aerodrome once I'm done - along with all the build stages - when I've had time to resize them all

Phil

[Agnew Airways]

There is an official spec. regarding the Invasion Stripes if you want to be bothered. For a single engine plane the stripes show up in 2 places. Around the fuselage, a foot and a half ahead of the tail and on both surfaces of each wing, again about a foot and a half from the fuselage. Although I have seen variants depending on how rushed the paint job was, there were usually 5 stripes in each set, WBWBW.

[moostang51]

These were also called D-Day stripes. Yes they were usually WBWBW but always ran on the underside of the fuselage ending into the countries markings be it the French Air, RAF or USAF. Most of the P-51's operated by these countries at that time ended the stripes here so as not to interfere with their camouflage, as they did not know what kind of terrain they would be flying over.

[fychan]

Most of the P-51's operated by these countries at that time ended the stripes here so as not to interfere with their camouflage, as they did not know what kind of terrain they would be flying over.

I always presumed that they were there so that when the (Allied) troops heard a plane & looked up it was immediately apparent if it was one of "ours" - and also to save the whole "Blue on Blue" (friendly-fire to those of us who are less "P.C." ) situations...

I had always presumed that what with the almost complete air supremacy(sp?) of the Allied forces at the time of the Normandy landings and beyond - the camoflague was almost entirely superfluous by that time. The black and white stripes would be very easy to pick out on an aircraft from the ground (or another fighter) no matter the weather conditions, or pretty much the distance from the plane.

But then, I've never looked into it before - I've always just kinda "assumed" I guess.... Having just done a very quick Google for it (Wiki has no article on it.... ) I found this forum thread which appears very impressive:
http://www.armyairforces.com/forum/m_70286/tm.htm#
Including a scanned copy of an orginal document defining how the stripes should be applied to both single and double engined aircraft.

Another thing I just learnt was that the top stripes were only removed for Operation Market Garden and that on D-Day itself both top & bottom of the wings were painted. As I was only planning on painting the undersides (It'll make life a lot more difficult, but I think the "effect" is better...) I'll have to just say that's where my Spitfire was off to

[moostang51]

fychan,

Check out this website for markings of specific aircraft. (IPMSSTOCKHOLM.ORG) I felt that with static
displays you could be as authentic as you want regardless of excessive weight from paint, wheels, cockpits etc.

I did a lot of searching when I built my Mustang and this site was awesome.

Hope this helps.

Moostang51

[fychan]

Thanks for the link Moostang, I'll take a peek when I've got more time (almost 1/2 past midnight here at the moment )...

I'm planning on building my lot to fly tho - even tho I'm 98% certain I'll end up with a lot of broken balsa bits after the first "flight"

Still, no harm in having a beautiful aircraft crash eh?

[fychan]

Instead of a final coat of dope you might consider a couple of coats of clear gloss acrylic which is fuel proof.

Just as an FYI, I was running in the engine this morning, and the acrylic paint itself is NOT fuel proof. Once I've repaired the damage I'll clear acrylic over the top and see if that helps

There is some photographic proof if anyone's interested... And I know you never said the paint was fuel proof - to be honest, I clean forgot to clear-coat it before running the engine

[fychan]

Don't feel bad in any way - like I said, it was I who forgot to clear acrylic the paint before running the engine... And on the bright side, at least I didn't find out on the Invasion stripes or camouflage patterns - which would be a nightmare to repair

This was just a dark coat on the inside of the cowling to cut down the glaring visibility of the holes - and I still have a cup of it in the fridge